Peak Batfam

There are two of them. The one in OP, and the black Azrael.

kek does every member of the batfamily have a black version

the black Azrael.

Who hasn't been relevant since like pre-Flashpoint.
Seriously you guys fucking love to complain about characters that just don't fucking appear anymore, like Harper Row or Clownhunter.

Absolutely no one considers Duke a core member

Here's the actual current "active" Bat-Family.

Bruce (Batman)

Dick (Nightwing)

Selina (Catwoman)

Babs (Oracle/Batgirl)

Jason (Red Hood)*

Tim (Robin)*

Steph (Spoiler/Batgirl)*

Cass (Batgirl)

Damian (Robin)

Duke (Signal)*

Asterik means they don't have a book right now.

DC does for the sole fact that they need a token black character for the family.
Not enough to like, actually do anything interesting with him, specially since they cucked him out of being an official Robin, but enough for him to show up in Bat-Family moments and represent them in the Black History Month specials.

I'm not the anon who brought him up. I was explaining for an anon who wasn't aware.

The Foxes fucked off to New York anon, they haven't even worked with the main family in a long time.

Add Cass, Steph and Damian and qe're golden

Add Cass

2 Casses is way too much!

Cass is already there

Even Morrison was shocked Damian was still alive in the prime continuity! DC loves to add token black people but too scared to make them “significant” especially since Bruce having biological children defeats the whole purpose of a “batfamily” duke would've been more relevant being Robin #5/6

Bruce and Alfred are all that's needed.

That's way too many. Should just be Batman and Robin.

based

D'oh! Then just Steph and Damian. Honestly ya'll can get rid of Azrael too.

Rude.

I only know the Jean-Paul version and I've never cared for him.

Batman

Robin (Damien or Tim)

Nightwing

Batgirl or Oracle

Alfred

There. That's all the Bat Family should ever be.

They’re too white bread.
Keep Alfred dead.
We need all these many other vigilantes patrolling Gotham.

Go to sleep boomer.

Boomer

Damien

you just played yourself

???

Good era for stories but even this team is redundant.
Helena and JPV only exist to give creators a job.
Cass has one good story arc and then her creator spun wheels for a year before ditching comics because he had no more stories to tell and fucked out of comics almost entirely except for a single year of Supergirl stories.
I have yet to see a good reason for why Babs shouldn't be Batgirl when almost every other 80's/90's alternate persona for a classic character got dropped. Oracle is a job Alfred can do.
TNBA got it right. Batman, Robin,Nightwing, Batgirl.

You should, he's cool.

Fuck off.

I have yet to see a good reason for why Babs shouldn't be Batgirl when almost every other 80's/90's alternate persona for a classic character got dropped.

Probbly because she's not a very interesting character when she's not a cripple.

Hal and Barry weren’t too interesting either and they got a chance to come back. Pre-crisis was full of mediocre writing. Babs was redeemed by the media but she never got a new chance in the comics until she was far too locked into the Oracle role

Babs was redeemed by the media

Lmao, no she was not.

Not to you, but enough to make her a popular character to many people.

, but enough to make her a popular character to many people.

Yeah, by making her a cocktease who slept with her ex-boyfriend's dad.

You could watch all of BTAS and TNBA and never encounter that. Besides, you have other cartoons and games that keep her relevant and popular.

enough to make her a popular character to many people.

They just made people know her as Batgirl, she became the favorite to some just because she was the token girl, any girl could've done the same if pushed similarly.

I like Cass, but she absolutely could not have gotten the same popularity Babs got.
Babs just has more general appeal

we had this thread a few days ago

This. It doesn't help that they never go out of their way to include Stephanie, who is much more bubbly and just as capable because girl token who gets work done is safer and easier to do.

The only reason Barbara gets a pass as batgirl in the media is because her origin is very easy to adapt she doesn’t require much setup besides her dad. Hell nowadays she’s getting adapted before dick sometimes. Cass is redundant especially with Damian being pushed as hard and her gimmick gets old quick like how her first ongoing and current ongoing repeats the same storylines for her. Now Steph she could actually pose a challenge to the batgirl crown and her time as batgirl was cut due to the new 52 reboot and she hasn’t been the sad character since! But also here lies the problem she’s tied to Tim and Cass in regards to interactions and just like the rest of the 90’s characters they are irrelevant now

Babs to Steph is a much cleaner pipeline than Babs to Cass but no one will admit that because Cass is objectively more interesting if a less appropriate character for the mantle.
Cass should still exist but her as Batgirl will always feel like trying too hard to not be your father’s Batgirl.

We always have this thread every few days.

Cass is redundant especially with Damian

Cass and Damian could actually work as a fun pair of autistic siblings but DC is full of cowards.

point out that UTRH was a bad event story and damaged Jason's character

retards shit their pants and said it wasn't

I was right.

Cass time was always gonna run out especially with the Barbara as batgirl pandering happening. Hell even Alex Ross thought he was designing a new costume for Babs when he created Batwoman for 52! DC editorial combined with Hush and when they suddenly turned Cass into a villain yeah it was over. She fucked off when Batman RIP was happening and barely did anything during the Batman Inc era. Then the new 52 batgirl series was definitely selling well+ burnside and it’s been over since

because Cass is objectively more interesting if a less appropriate character for the mantle.

Let's not get carried away here

Cass's costume alone makes her a more interesting Batgirl.

Objective is the key word, loathe as I am to use such a cliche term.
I can get people thinking Cass is a more interesting character and Steph is just a basic spunky sidekick. I don’t agree with that, but I do get that.

It also makes her a far more niche character.

My ideal Batfam would be the one we would have if DC had rebooted in Final Crisis. Morrison's idea was to leave the post-Crisis universe existing, but have a new one with the reboot, that way Dick would continue to be Batman, Damian as Robin, Tim as Red Robin, Speth as Batgirl, Cass as BlackBat, Babs as Oracle, Helena Huntress. Jason would be the "Joker" of the new Batman, just like Morrison did (best Jason look ever, btw).

This but Steph as the Spoiler who spoils the Cluemaster's plots. Plus, there's progress going from a small-time vigilante to big league as THE Batgirl in comparison to Cass, who got it in a matter of days while Tim and Steph had to work for their spots on the team.

That's how you know she's cool!

Cass fans can’t name why they like her or what makes her interesting if it’s not about her “fighting skills” or how she’s the one to take up the “bat mantle”. It’s the same reason Batwoman doesn’t stick she’s basically if bruce was a lesbian but with more of an edge.

Spoiler is a better, more unique, and more interesting identity for Steph, even the costume is cooler than when she is Batgirl.
In-universe Steph doesn't need to be Batgirl, being Batgirl is more important to Cass, Steph needs to be her own hero like Dick is Nightwing instead of just being yet another Batgirl, specially now that Cass and Babs are Batgirls too, Steph just comes off as the lesser one of the trio.

Jason would be the "Joker" of the new Batman, just like Morrison did (best Jason look ever, btw).

DC already did that in Robin Lives! and everyone hated it because it was really shitty twist. Making Jason into Dick's Joker is a really stupid idea that because these two characters barely intereacted in the past, yet DC really want Jason and Dick to be the tightest shit ever so when Jason dies and returns, they get this angle where Dick is the good guy who did good by Bruce while Jason is the bad guy and obviously in the wrong.

best Jason look

I can't agree with you there, and it's not just cause he looks ugly as hell, the Red Pill costume is way too much, looks like a pajama.

Right about nothing

Steph going from being rejected from the batfam three times to sneaking the Batgirl mantle and earning it was far more satisfying, plus the visual of her going from a mantle that was completely androgynous and hiding her face to one that shows her eyes and smile is effective. The compare and contrast of her and Babs is also nice- Babs dad is a Gotham cop and Steph’s is a Gotham crook,both felt they had something to prove and made their costumes themselves, both are witty but Babs is more brains and Steph more guts
Cass never really felt like she specifically wanted to be Batgirl, sure she respects Babs and her time, but by design she’s meant to show up babsgirl. She’s able to take down a Babs simulation in humiliatingly short amount of time. She finds Bab’s costume annoying to work in. She wants to be Batman, being Batgirl is more a matter of convenience

In-universe Steph doesn't need to be Batgirl, being Batgirl is more important to Cass

Here's the thing: I really don't care because I think Cass is a boring character and cheapened the Batman comics with her existence (not a coincidence late 90s Batman editorial was in the tank). Batigirl is something that should be looked up to, like how the mantle of Robin is seen as well.

Dick really should’ve been Batman until 2015 that’s why there’s Bruce fatigue rn because that concept of Jason being the joker to his Batman sounds so bad and a parody

even the costume is cooler than when she is Batgirl.

Based blob enjoyer.

Spoiler and Tim really carried 90’s batfam

specially now that Cass and Babs are Batgirls too, Steph just comes off as the lesser one of the trio.

Literally because the editorial cannot let her be equal or superior to Cass. Cass absolutely NEEDS to be glazed by the Batfams and everyone else because, otherwise, she has nothing. She's almost the equivalent of the Batfam's Storm.

This, Jason doesn't need to have nauce; just make him into a generic crime boss meets the Punisher.

It's honestly insulting Jason is still stuck with that dinky little half mask.

editorial cannot let her be equal or superior to Cass

Ah yes, it's editorial's fault.

Dc doesn’t want to fully commit because they want to please the tumblr/twt Jason Stan’s and have him around the batfam every other week. That’s why he’s stuck in a limbo while Bucky surpassed him and actually has more layers. Hell there’s a reason he can’t keep an ongoing for long

Jason needs enemies that he can kill without consequences, like zombies or demons or monsters or draculas or something.

Bucky

Bucky has the better written story but nobody remembers it because its fucking Bucky.

A character that kills inherently thrives in Marvel more than DC, specially someone like Bucky who's a soldier, while Jason can't ever do shit in Gotham without Bruce getting on his case.

Or just keep making new characters?

Hell there’s a reason he can’t keep an ongoing for long

Because of UTRH completely shitting the bed in regards to his character in the long term and the editorial realizing they fucked him up, and proceeded to give up on him.

Nah he needs to get out of Gotham for good and occasionally clash with Nightwing on morals and stay far away from Bruce because it turns into autistic debates. I wouldn’t mind Jason killing Joker for a decade or 2 so he doesn’t get used anymore

Sounds more like a skill issue.

Nah he needs to get out of Gotham for good and occasionally clash with Nightwing on morals

I can always count on you guys for dogshit takes.

I dunno if constantly making new disposable villains for Jason to kill is worth it, specially because in comics you ideally want villains with staying power.

Nah he needs to get out of Gotham

That was kinda what I was implying, leave Gotham and find something to kill in peace, but now that you mention it, he could probably also do it in Gotham under the right circumstances.

I wouldn’t mind Jason killing Joker for a decade or 2 so he doesn’t get used anymore

I dunno, I feel like DC is keeping the story of Joker dying for a rainy day, and then they can do the story of Joker getting revived too.

I know right? How could he clash with Nightwing if Dick is usually in Bludhaven?

The wrong man died of AIDS.

Manga manages to do it just fine. New villains show up, make an impact, and either get taken out or stick around if they’re interesting enough. It keeps things fresh instead of relying on the same handful of enemies forever.

stay far away from Bruce because it turns into autistic debates.

oh but he should clash with Nightwing and get into autistic debates

Are you stupid?

Nightwing isn’t autistic like Bruce and also it develops Dick because god knows he needs just about anything in that lame city of his.

and occasionally clash with Nightwing on morals

Your bad idea made me realize something: Dick is an incredibly naive optimist but on a stupid level ever since Tom Taylor got his hands on him. The idea that Dick would pump hundreds of millions onto a city with corruption that would give Chicago and Baltimore a run for their money and assume things will get fixed is hilarious. Jason, being the street wise one of the team, could see the red flags from a galaxy away, then sit back and let Dick gets cheated out of his money like a fool to teach him a lesson in the harsh reality of political corruption.

Funny thing is, the rogues gallery we know is just formed through a matter of the cream rising to the top. Riddler only appeared in 3 issues over 20 years. Joker, penguin, and catwoman were the only real recurring villains to appear for longer than 5 years regularly before the 60s show. Most villains had like 1-5 appearances and then disappeared.

and also it develops Dick because god knows he needs just about anything in that lame city of his.

therefore we need a character who's life was changed by Bruce, not Dick, to be Dick's main rival

Dumbass

It's sad that no one talks about Nightwing ever since Taylor left the book.

Have him fight drug cartels.

Batman

Alfred

James Gordon

FTFY.
That's all supporting cast you really need. Batfamily is dumb. Nobody needs those stupid whores and faggot Robins

This is so retarded but then again it’s Tom Taylor. Leftist really think like this and you wonder why Blue States have the higher crime rates

For fucks sake do you have to bring the left/right shit into everything?

Yeah, that’s why I don’t get why they keep pushing the already popular characters like Joker or Darkseid instead of new ones. It feels like they’re playing it safe instead of taking risks and exploring fresh, untapped potential.

Yeah ur right both sides are retarded ngl but leftists take it to a whole new level like writing about climate change in comics

I will never understand people liking and defending Judd Winick's shit, honestly.

Most of Batman’s villains need a revamped they don’t even feel like a challenge to him anymore due to batgod status

currently reading an enjoying williamson batman and robin. can anyone tell me why damians gf has ras al ghuls ghost livingin her head? i didnt read previous runs and this book is my first time even meeting her

She did a thing in one of the Lazarus Planet one-shots.

Some people are just really, really dumb and cannot see the bigger picture, like Judd Winick. Judd was too stupid to realize that the Jason that showed up in Hush wasn't Jason, but it was a corruption meant to throw off Batman. But Judd the Dudd put the comic down, looked at the viewers and asked, "BUT WHAT IF IT WAS JASON!?"

That's because Tom Taylor operated on the genius logic of money shots. It doesn't matter how bad the comic is; as long as you have one moment that gets everyone talking and buying the comic, you did your job.

Because he’s the only one who doesn’t treat Jason like shit.

Because everyone wanted that to really be Jason. Hush is retroactively improved by it being Jason in on it.

Because he’s the only one who doesn’t treat Jason like shit.

Except he literally wrote UTH with the intent of him being run and then doubled down on in the movie where he made Jason more reckless, unhinged, and a crybaby.

with the intent of him being wrong from the start

Hush is retroactively improved by it being Jason in on it.

But it's not, Hush is still a pretty dumb story.

He wasn’t the director, and of course, they had to make Batman look right in the end.

Anon, the man himself sees Jason as the bad guy.

With a little “b.” He never saw Jason as completely evil.

I really liked Jason is cool with drugs now, not towards kids, but fine with their parents getting it. A long way since seeing how his mother became addicted and what not.

It is, but Jason at the climax was actually cool and making it really him is more satisfying

Don't sell drugs to kids! Or moms with kids

Well boss, we checked this lady's hospital records and adoption records, no sign of her giving birth or adopting. I'm sure that's a surefire well to tell she has no kids in her home.

I see nothing wrong with this, she can have all the drugs she wants.

Batman

Nightwing

Batgirl

Robin

That's all you need and all it should ever be