Can we have a thread about the schizo politics of this series...

Some neocons are so far gone they appear as parody. I don't think he was faking it go read Holy Terror that was like the most neocon comic ever made

Only the uber woke think this. And brownoids seething about 300 and holy terror

To me, he's one of the few solid cape writers ever. Him being good at that is all it takes.

He clearly expresses right wing messages in his early comics

List them, the comics by name and the messages within them. I’ll even ignore your specification of “early” and allow you to open it up to his whole career.

If you can’t do this I’ll take it as your concession that you were just shitposting.

The people who think Miller is right wing also claim people like Bill Maher are. They’re too young to understand that their view of “progressive” is incredibly regressive and, ironically, conservative.

See OP the way he portrays the left as soft on crime and how Joker's psychiatrist was a caricature leftist therapist. The mayor thinking he can bargain with the leader of the mutants and it doesn't work is how the leftists run places like NYC and San Francisco to this day. Now come up with some arbitrary nonsense to invalidate that stuff or say it's not "real leftist thinking" so I can take my W because we know that's your plan here. To not accept anything I said. So reply exactly how I predict you will and give me my W.

Only if you ignore that he paints everyone in that comic as morally bankrupt. Same people who say this shit about Holy Terror think he was being racist in 300 making the Persians exotic and strange when it’s a comic from leonidas’ closed-off perspective. The same Leonidas who thinks his own Sparta is corrupt and bows down to pedophiles and thinks the rest of Greece is full of pansies and pussies.

Basically, the only people who have a problem with either of those projects lacks any form of critical literacy or resent western culture and white people so much they cannot fathom it’s anything but racist.

Here's the answer

80s Miller: Mugged Liberal; he got mugged which made him take a tough-on-crime stance but still critical of the right-wing
Late 90s(?)/00s/early 10s Miller: Miller definitely had some kind of alcoholism problem along with some other health issues. Definitely was pissed off by 9/11 which of course led to Holy Terror.
Mid-Late 10s Miller to now: Got help, quit the booze. Afterwards does feel kind of guilty over Holy Terror and admits he wasn't in a good place when he did that.

I don't think a modern or classic liberal would have wrote Holy Terror. Liberals all across the board were outspoken about Bush's war on terror and that book wasn't parody but some weird revenge fantasy

No no, go on list more of his comics and their right wing messages

Liberals all across the board were outspoken about Bush's war on terror and that book wasn't parody but some weird revenge fantasy

That’s not even remotely true. Are you too young to remember the actual state of affairs for the five years following 9/11? They all voted in favor of the war. It wasn’t until well into W’s second term that they started to distance themselves.

I think it’s disingenuous to use DKR in a vacuum when Year One is extremely leftist in its views on government and society.

I gave you what you asked. So what is your issue with them?

Bro he was called a war monger and a fascist by the left. What he was doing was constantly referred to as a "war for oil". You have Jon Stewart on every night attacking him and leftists applauding. Bill Maher said we deserved it. Just stop with this history retelling.

You said his early comics, meaning multiple comics. List them and their messages.

Well that's the point of this thread because over time his views swung dramatically

I did I mentioned DKR which happened over a series of issues I believe 4 in total. What was your issue with them? If you don't say what in your next post I will assume you are shit posting and accept your concession

I accept your concession. 1. DRK isn’t one of his “early” comics and 2. You haven’t read any others so it’s absurd to claim:

He clearly expresses right wing messages in his early comic

That’s bizarre it almost seems you disagree with this anon then if you think his views changed.

Thank you for confirming you were shitposting and I called out the retarded trap you were trying to do. I accept your concession.

n-n-no you

Anon you made a claim and didn’t back it up. Why are you being like this?

I backed it up and you got mad that i called out what you tried to do so again i accept your concession

Dunno if that anon is right or wrong but I think his views have changed over time.

Miller had been working in comics for well over ten years and had his entire run on daredevil before DKR so it’s not exactly an early comic of his. Most people would say he got more conservative over time but this ignores things like Golden Child.

Your claim

He clearly expresses right wing messages in his early comics?

Your attempt to back that claim up

talking about a single four issue mini from later in his career

Not a single other example?

see previous post

It could be anything. I had right wing uncle who got married to a liberal who completely changed him. Also I have liberal friends who moved to Baltimore who were attacked multiple times by a certain demographic and one got a concussion and I see them posting right wing things now on facebook. You really won't know until Frank tells us in reality

Batman is shown as being wrong about having to humiliate the mutants because his actions unleash a gang in his name which was never his intention. He himself is also the reason the joker, who had been largely docile returned as well. I think you’re confusing the Harvey storyline and the joker one. I’d also argue that it isn’t inherently “right wing” to doubt psychiatry, this is a very bilateral view of politics when even now, but especially in the 80s, people on the left half of the spectrum - which is what political views fall on more than a binary option, it’s a spectrum - find mental health and psychiatry to be crack pot shit.

You also have a sequence of Superman who has been corrupted by a corrupt right wing government lamenting military conflict and pollution. As well as Batman fighting a militarized police, seen as authoritarian right wing bullies by the left, who don’t seem overly concerned with stopping crime.

To say it’s an overly right wing comic seems to ignore that Batman isn’t shown as universally correct and eventually fakes his death to save Superman from the right wing government.

Not that anon and I agree with you on TDKR. What other right wing messages are in his comics so I can avoid them?

Wait shit this meant for

not that anon but see here

TDKR is specifically Death Wish meets Batman, during the Bernhard goetz era. outside of that his early comics are pretty left leaning. I cant imagine thinking born again or year one are full of right wing messages,

Never said it was "overly right wing" I said he expresses right wing messages and I suspect he is more like a right leaning libertarian at that time with his views on the government.

I think you are that anon but regardless, I said I agree about tdkr I would like other examples to avoid, so that doesn’t help

But it also expresses left wing anti-gun, anti-government, anti-police, anti-corruption stances. It’s fairly balanced.

Nope I am not that anon just like you are not the other anon because it would be sad to be so petty and mad that you would start doing this NTA stuff right?

A lot of that stuff crosses over with libertarians.

Anon I literally just said I agree with you, why are you being so schizophrenic?

do you agree that people who lie about not being an anon are pathetic?

At this risk of calling you pathetic yes I agree. So can you just tell me some of his comics I should avoid?

I agree.

Good we agree you are pathetic. Once again see here

Peak Autistic Meltdown lol

having a discussion is a meltdown now

You don’t have to avoid any of his comics. Even DKR isn’t all that “right wing” I think the other dude is just having a mental health moment.

He’s quite literally a classic liberal, the closest he’s ever come to conservative was when he was personally mugged and wanted justice against the dude that did it. But we got year one out of it so who would bitch?

Let me guess, you think Rogan is some republican as well?

My posts you linked to were me and another guy having a civil discussion so I think you are confused or my posts upset you

Nope you can't write Holy Terror and be called a "classic liberal" sorry. Rogan literally endorsed Bernie Sanders at one point he is not a Republican

Nope you can't write Holy Terror and be called a "classic liberal" sorry

You have to be pretty brown or young to think this.

What's your obsession with brown men what are you projecting?

civil discussion

You’ve conflated anons again but that’s hardly a “civil discussion” it’s just you melting down on what appears to be at least two people (neither of whom are me fyi)

yes you can, easily.
classic liberal =/= selfhating cuckold sjw

You weren’t alive when 9/11 happened were you?

ok my posts upset you then
thanks for confirming

Considering that’s the part that you’re offended by rather than the age portion it tells me it hit close to home.

one anon disagrees with you

you refuse to participate in a discussion

second anon agrees with you, you refuse to oblige them and discuss

I call you an autistic having a melt down

somehow this means im upset

Seethe more retard lmao

classic liberal =/= selfhating cuckold sjw

mises.org/mises-wire/classical-liberals-were-radical-opponents-war-and-militarism
Frank Miller has called Holy Terror anti al-Qa'eda propaganda in the same vein Captain America was used in WW2 to drum up support for a war. This is the complete opposite view of classic liberals, something you know nothing about other than what retards like Rogan tell you

Not only alive but I lived in NYC and watch the towers burn from my roof

I mentioned nothing about being offended I asked what your obsession was with them?

this seethe

Yup you already confirmed it we are good.

You loves nazis and muslim arabs?

Frank Miller is like Dennis Miller, he only went to the hard right after 9/11.

No. Where is this discussion even going now?

I haven't read the Dark Knight Returns comic in a while, but I watched the first part of the movie adaptation, and it was way more right-wing/fascist than I remembered the book being. Did they amp those elements up in the adaptation, or did I just miss them in the original?

I dunno it's been a while since I watched it. I remember not liking it ultimately but I can't remember why.

feels like it was toned down

and it was way more right-wing/fascist

How so?

I was actually in the north tower anon

I notice anon never gave a single example of right wing messaging in miller’s comics outside of the dark knight returns. Not to someone he agreed with or disagreed with.

What a weird thread

You’re locked into thinking in terms of American left/right. Holy Terror was heavily inspired by Theo von Goigh’s killing by an Islamic extremist for his views against Islam, and Theo leaned left. In Europe a lot of a to-Islamic sentiment used to be left wing

lol he is still seething that his nonsense trap didn't work like an hour later

Frank Miller is an American so yes I will be thinking in terms of America. He said the story was based on old WW2 propaganda comics with the same desired outcome.

The entire point of Anon Babble 'discussion' boards is anons trying to bait one another into expressing an honest, non ironic opinion, so they can mock them for being so gay as to be sincere on Anon Babble of all places

Because he can’t lol

Yea I noticed. It's like on Anon Babble where you sincerely express an opinion like "I don't think game x is good because......" and all the replies demand you name a game you like, any game it doesn't matter what it is so they can attack it and by proxy attack you even if it's a game you like. One of those autists is in this thread you can see.

He’s American but he’s also been globally conscious. His art agent is a French woman and he’s into the international comic scene.

He’s quite literally a classic liberal

That, as a self-description, covers everything from hardcore Nazis to people who really think that there's nothing wrong with gassing people, because we're living in the best of all possible worlds and everybody gets their due.

He's an American who said the point of that comic was propaganda for a war which goes against what classic liberals believe.

Let me guess, you think Rogan is some republican as well?

Joe Rogan doesn't seem to have the faculties required to hold an opinion.

No, everyone who disagrees with you isn't Germans from 100 years ago, Nor Soviet Communists neither.

Liberalism has really been reduced to "the poor shouldn't breath" these days.

Well he has his own beliefs that don’t fall neatly into one part or another. .

So you are just going to keep ignoring that he has said the book was pro war propaganda which is what classic liberals are against? That's your plan here just ignore my argument and keep repeating yourself?

I can only understand anything as "hurr durr left/right"

But are they good comic books?

Miller probably would not firmly align himself to any one party or political leaning . Many people did not. The idea of everyone picking one giant political umbrella in the US is relatively new and wasn’t really a thing when Miller was a young man.

Not at all what OP was about as it wasn't about taking a side just wondering why he would wildly swing around points.

Based on what he put out there I think he fancied himself a libertarian. I understand you non Americans love your holier than thou lecturing when it comes to world politics but this is an American we are talking about so the argument doesn't work here.

libertarian

So he's a "roads lead to serfdom"-type then. The Internet guys from the 90s at least came to recognize that it wasn't a good idea to hand it all over to corpos and reptile people.

The thing about libertarians is that it is a broad bucket. You look at Ron Paul, Gary Johnson and Jo Jorgensen and there is a lot of disagreement there. You can be a right leaning libertarian, a left one or middle ground. That's why I put him in this bucket. It's either he's a libertarian or stupid or both.

I understand you non Americans love your holier than thou lecturing when it comes to world politics but this is an American

No I'm just an old American. The political takes I hear guys around Miller's age say would have you guys raised on a post-9/11 internet head spin.

Miller is no different than any never trumper neo con. The kinds that support people like project Lincoln, There is nothing special about him. I have relatives in their 60's and 70's just like him.

Miller is no different than any never trumper neo con.

Well Miller exists, making him radically different from the other group you mentioned.

politics wise he is nothing special. Same boomer ignorance that got us into the current messes we are in.