Death Battle

Simon The Digger VS Kyle Rayner sneak peak
files.catbox.moe/nzh6tj.mp4
Previews for both
Simon youtube.com/watch?v=iZg4-Fae6B0
Kyle youtube.com/watch?v=6DKs__L16E4

Fight drops next week

BALROG WON

Simon won.

I just want it to be here already.

Post eternity beating anyone

Episode is 99% hand drawn

still rooting for Simon

Post Simon being omnipotent.

So now that the episode is one week away how are we feeling about this

And is there anything you think i should change to make it more spicy

whats "creative" about this again? its just a boxer to punch people.

if it was a kangaroo with gloves now that might be oooh that guy is a imaginative guy!

This honestly feels a bit too safe, vertical down from C for example feels basically guaranteed

The Anti-Spiral is collective hivemind (likely billions) of former Spirals from a highly advanced civilization (they were controlling time, space, dimensions, and reality) who believed halting their own evolutions was the way to stop the Spiral Nemesis, since Spiral Power is a cosmobiological phenomena that Spirals lifeforms use to evolve and advance as a species, going against this would be akin to going against your own human natural instinct to procreate and evolve as a species. The Spirals of that time saw that the infinite potential growth of Spiral Power would be too unstable for even one Spiral Lifeform, so they stopped their own evolution process and created a pocket universe between the 10th and 11th branes/dimensional universes. In Episode 24, we learn that they ARE the Universe themselves, meaning that their "physical form" is nothing more than a simple embodiment of billions consciousness rolled into one. They have the power to control the multiverse of all Spiral life and can trap the consciousness within it so they could experience infinite possibilities at the same time. They practically have nigh-omniscience, the one thing that stops them from full omniscience is the concept of Spiral Power, and learning how to stop it. All the knowledge and power in the multiverse and yet Spiral Power is this incomprehensible?

Top row and second column from left seem likely, they both already have two marks in them

Can Yugi summon and use Duel Monsters (DMs) IRL?
Yes

1.1 - www3.animeflv.net/ver/yu-gi-oh-182
option 2, 16:09
Yugi can summon DMs he wants to irl without tribute to fight the real orichalcos serpent god.
Excuse the spanish dub.
1.2-He can also summon DMs irl thru capsule monsters and use hax himself thru the duel armors, like magic cylinder, he is shown being able to use the capsule monsters powers inside and outside the Capsule Monster world, Yugi also can go into people's minds, like when he tried to save joey from his red eyes armor's control and nullify attacks like he did vs Alexander the Great, also scales above Shadii's night sky realm, which he created.
1.3 - Pyramid of Light has him use Shining Dragon to kill Anubis, who was not a DM. but a duelist.
1.4 - has dueled against & alongside Jaden Yuki/Yudai who had Neos travel from the Neo Space Moon in Saturn to Earth to stop Satorius's beam after already being fired and scales/becomes one with Yubel, who defeated Exodia and was about to merge 12 dimensions and make them explode at once.

2 Are DMs just holograms?
No

2.1 As shown in GX, the duel monster world is its own separate realm and not just fictional several times, www3.animeflv.net/ver/yu-gi-oh-183 option 2, 1:02 has DMG literally lead a full on duel monster army to attack orichalcos serpent

3- Why hasnt Yugi killed his foes with DMs before? / some extra powers

He is not evil and...

S1 Pegasus has his granpa soul and wants it back, bakura and pegasus use their Millenium Items in this season's finale to try to kill the other and soul suck civilians. Yugi would too since he also has a MI made with dark energy. Shadii also uses his MI to enter Yugi's mind and ends up trapped in the millenium puzzle, which is stated endless. youtube.com/watch?v=pDDZeI9D0No&ab_channel=SurgicalSong Yugi can mindtrick "geniuses" with ease. ALL of S0 (which is canon) is like that.
1/3

Using Balrog instead of TJ

Its like Kyle wants to lose

I want this thread to win over the other one

S2 they were trapped in nova's digital world

S3 Yugi wants to save good Marik for Ishizu's request, marik also haxes a guard with a spell card in s3. youtu.be/Zv9ipYtb7Ao?si=jHEyuZrSACOvKqES&t=71 Researching the God cards make you suicidal / mad without a millenium item. (1:08, japanese version has the second one jump out the window.)

S4 Seal of Orichalcos duels cannot be abandoned (the first duel of s4). The goal of the evil group is steal souls thru duels, not kill people.
As stated before, he summons monsters irl to attack orichalcos god, Yugi commands the god cards as a spirit youtu.be/dG2AvFuho_A?si=B_BgGdsrHaw5XXx5&t=578 9:36 and vanish what remains of orichalcos's evil on his own as it tried to posses him at the end of the arc.

Capsule monsters - yugi uses capsule monsters and duel armors to kill other real monsters and against Alexander the great, duel armors give him flight, being able to get into minds, use magic cylinders, dark magic attacks, supernatural strenght like the attached gift, Armor of Unity at the end nullified an attack from Alexander, who already beat the CM World adventure with his own party and when Alexander tried to attack Yugi's mind, he could redirect it towards the millenium puzzle, which is again stated to be endless.
PoL - he kills anubis in this movie with shining dragon
S5 bakura also has a good side both yugies wanna save him, they use monsters to try to kill Zorc
GX- They use monsters irl several times and yubel uses her duel power to almost merge all 12 dimensions then make them explode, Yugi's deck alone created the realm he and Jaden duel in, where time does not flow, jaden states yugi has the strongest duel energy he has ever felt.
youtu.be/0DKUsDKRm18?si=n7ZknKD8tUj8ukW1&t=2 0:07
BBT - He, Yusei and Jaden killed Paradox in their duel. Jaden uses Neos to protect himself from Paradox's rainbow dragon in Venice. youtu.be/uBzazRsbwb0?si=rYX99UBr2rSHDt6c&t=303 5:08
2/2

There's already a ben vs hal reference in Kyle's preview and he references row row fight the powah in the sneak peek

]

3/3 Manga stuff and wincons.

Manga Yugi continuity Atem scales to Prana directly, the divine energy that has been stated in the official DSOD manga to transcend dimensions perceived by mankind several times by several characters within the same volume

Full English manga V
galaxyeyedphoton.tumblr.com/post/154685286981/yu-gi-oh-transcend-game-part-1-of-2
galaxyeyedphoton.tumblr.com/post/155304130106/yu-gi-oh-transcend-game-part-2-of-2

youtube.com/watch?v=t7Q2fh2PnRA&t=50s&ab_channel=SanhAnime (atem's return alone causes prana to dissapear, Kaiba resisted being erased by Aigami in their first duel thanks to his advanced duel disk)

-

Wincons -

Ash will be likely scaled to the Ultra Beasts such as Necrozma thru Pikachu beating merged Lusamine.

Necrozma lightened up the "endless" Ultra Space, if it used portals or not its not relevant, it is considered an Infinite 3D AP feat, and pokemon such as Palkia have been considered "infinite speed" by sites like vsbw.

The speed advantage is notable since it surpasses even Neos scaling, so Yugi would need to have either scaling to his deck being able to create a realm where does not flow and he can duel just fine in for infinite speed or Prana scaling to argue he is beyond the 4D entirely.

Aside of the infinite speed Ash, Yugi just wins.

yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Yugi_Muto's_Decks
Yugi has the hax in his side thanks to being able to redirect attacks directly at Ash, wipe his entire team, sacrifice anyone from his team, mind control anyone from his team, insta kill anyone from his team and with Shining Dragon, directly tell it to destroy Ash even as a Duelist like it did vs Anubis.

He resists possession, mind manipulation, soul hax and outsmarts Ash several times over.

He also out APs Ash with Knight of Destiny being Infinite + 1, matches Lusamine's feat with Infinite Obelisk and both Yubel and Prana scaling obliterate thru higher dimensional range of effect.

We also see Kyle making a rainbow version of himself as big as STTGL

Kill Simonfags. Behead Simonfags. Roundhouse kick a Simonfag into a drill.

any suggestion for new entries and which ones to take out?

constantly reposting the same shit

oh god is Listroon supporting Yugi? I don't wanna be on the same side as him

it's not that serious

literally only reposted once
yugi vs ash is a hot topic rn

From these past threads...yes it is, apparently.

We don't care.

nerves touched by a little banter

"DEATHDEATHDEATHEKILLSIMONKEKSDEATHDEATH"

Maybe you're the problem anon

ritual posts are never good

The neoplatonic realm is just your mind

What are the chances of Simon still winning? detailed answers and explanations based on the preview only

preview only it is looking very bad for Simon, with them already making Kyle say a simon quote as a rage lowering mannouver, no selling all of his attacks too.

Simon's only wincon based on the previews and death battle's track record is power drain.

Otherwise, i am 95% sure Kyle will win

spamming the past several threads with cuck and nigger shit is banter now

Sure sure.

Kratos conquered an INFINITE number of realms of form and now lives there rent free.

That goes for Kylefags too though

kingtos spam every single thread

just say you want ash to win man

Fight is 99% hand drawn

The previews definitely seem to be setting up for a Simon win
Simon gets significantly more backstory and heartwarming moments compared to Kyle's emotionless (ironic) featspam
A lot of Kyle's feats seem like obvious bait and switch for later (12.3D compared to possible 20D Otoko) and they've already brought up Kyle's bad stamina

Still too close to call though. The main factors will be how much they buy Kyle's stamina and energy problems, and how much stock they put into reactive evolution. Past episodes of the show (involving DC characters like Lex and Black Adam no less) have given us characters that lose to energy drain even against weaker opponents, but also DB doesn't tend to treat reactive evolution well.

It's worth noting Asura also gets way stronger as he fights and scales massively above his best on screen feat and also got a heartwarming emotional analysis, but still lost to Kratos, so the same could happen here.

I find it funny they accepted super broly's but ignored Asura's

Bisonthena fan noticed
based

the inverse of the comic sales to manga

I do at least think Krasura was a weirdly unique example of them being ridiculously spiteful to a character they liked for some bizarre reason. I can't really think of any other fight like it.

Not saying they can't go down the same road for Simon vs Kyle here, but Kyle not having the same kind of retarded fanbase as Kratos helps quite a bit.

It's worth noting Asura also gets way stronger as he fights and scales massively above his best on screen feat and also got a heartwarming emotional analysis, but still lost to Kratos, so the same could happen here.

Asura literally lost to lore scaling lmao, what makes you think that they won't do the same for Kyle here?

Kyle wins - huh, i guess that happened
Simon wins - YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!

No idea what you're trying to say

I do at least think Krasura was a weirdly unique example of them being ridiculously spiteful to a character they liked for some bizarre reason. I can't really think of any other fight like it.

Anon, Ben literally had Raph stab Donatello like 25 times and Ben even said that Donatello was his favorite ninja turtle. Dude's a sadist.

NTA but he's referring to the statements that they gave to Kratos in order to justify him winning against Asura despite his reactive evolution arguments which sounds like a pretty similar case I've been hearing for why they think Simon would beat Kyle except Kyle has cosmology statements to make up for that.

All I was saying with the Krasura comparison is that

Asura also got a heartwarming analysis that fully fleshed out his character vs. Retarded featspam from his opponent which is the same as the Simon-Kyle previews

Asura also got reactive evolution like Simon does

Asura scales way above the golden statue while Simon scales way above the IBBS

and hell, Asura has way more impressive on screen feats than his opponent like Simon does

And Asura lost. I don't know what justifications they'll use for Kyle beating Simon if that happens, just saying the comparisons based on the previews only are very similar.

On the other hand it could go like Lex or Adam where energy drain was only a minor footnote but ballooned up into the big win condition. It's too early to call.

i fully expect a random super emotional pandering ending with Simon being welcomed in heaven by Nia, Kyle being like damn Simon was so damn fucking cool during the entire battle and in the end.

What are Kyle’s wincons aside from muh cosmology? Simon seems to counter everything while not having the energy issues of Kyle while also growing stronger. Trying to play devil’s advocate, maybe VERY generous interpretations of life equation or power drain??? Emotional manipulation?

It pretty much just is cosmology, and yeah, generous interpretations regarding his loss conditions

Simon could drain energy...but Kyle could do it too! (Ignore that his siphon is way less impressive than Simon's)

Kyle had the freaking Life Equation...even though he didn't have full control over it, it's still way too much for Simon to overcome!

I don't really see emotion manipulation chalked up as all that much since Simon seems like the kind of guy to go FUCK YOU to that kind of thing.

Big thing I can see is that Kyle took a 12.3D big bang, they ignore Otoko scaling for 20D and just settle with 11D, they call the IBBS the peak of Simon's power (obviously isn't but they did it for Asura) and say he couldn't handle an 11D big bang so Kyle even in base wins.

Life Equation shenanigans. Since it's the positive half of Anti-Life and has made beings comparable to Darkseid its bitch like Highfather and Spectre, it should scale to that and those guys are frankly far beyond the scope of Simon's capabilities.

Draining is a non-factor because both are capable of the same thing but even if they did drain the other, they wouldn't understand how to use those energies because they're radically different from each other.

Emotional manipulation is going handily in Kyle's side because each of the indivdual lantern lights have unique attributes that, along with regular GL rings being able to warp reality and shit, they have the following:

Blue boosts all capabilities of GL rings and provides immunity to any of the negative effects of the other lantern lights

Red gives berserk mode and can vomit acidic blood that burns so hot, it can destroy black lanterns faster than they can regenerate and hurt Relic who's supposed to have ascended into godhood as well as make them feel the same rage as well

Orange provides an even bigger boost (in the 1000+ % range) to the user's ring and they can summon constructs of former wielders of the Orange lantern or anyone that's died by an Orange lantern can be converted into a summoned construct, they can also absorb any kind of energy

Violet heals all injuries and can save one from certain death, they can also trap you in suspended animation through a crystal

Yellow can amplify a person's personal fears and the more afraid their target is, the more boosted the user's ring's capabilities become

Indigo allows for teleportation that cannot be tracked or traced, they can also copy the energies of the other lantern lights, including that of a Black Lantern

Assuming the White Lantern ring has all of these capabilities, how does Simon fare?

That would be the reverse of Doom VS Lex which is what this should end up being. Simon siphon deemed superior and he rises to any gap. Kyle folds due to ring failing and having no proficiency with his gotcha like Lex and the mother box

Admittedly not great. Simon hasn't shown any resistances to being manipulated via his emotions so any of the lantern lights could throw him off his game. Red alone can hurt beings like Relic and destroy black lanterns that can heal faster than Deadpool and usually need to be destroyed by the power of a White Lantern. Some of the lantern lights boost each other by a huge margin already while Simon's spiral power has to steadily grow as the fight progresses. We haven't even gotten into the Life Equation but if making the Spectre your bitch counts for anything, then the Life Equation can fold him just as hard.

Red Lantern blood isn't really going to be effective on a guy who dwarfs universes. It just comes from Kyle's own mouth. He's burn off an infinitesimally tiny part of even just Galaxy let alone the bigger forms.

Kyle has never once used his blue light to boost his other capabilities. In fact, he outright did not know blue light could be used to boost anything more than green, but he doesn't do that to himself anyway.

Kyle's usage of indigo has frequently knocked him out or almost killed him on various occasions and this is just him teleporting a few people interstellar distances.

Kyle has never used fear on anything other than Relic who automatically shrugged it off. On top of this point, Kyle very rarely actually uses the colors in a multitude but tends to use them one at a time.

Kyle has also never used his orange light to supercharge himself.

The one thing Kyle did actually do on that list is heal himself from Ganthet's fatal blast with love, so there's that, but that's something he'd need his ring's power to do which has a finite charge and time limit.

Additionally the arc Kyle becomes a White Lantern the DC emotional spectrum is directly said to be finite compared to Spiral Power's infinite energy.

Because this is DB though I mean yeah I guess Kyle wins because of all of that.

I heard somewhere he has perfect control over his emotions. and TTGL is fueled by every emotion the members of TTGL were feeling. so would that be rendered useless against Simon.

Even if both the sources were infinite Simon would still have the edge. Kyle is only empowered by 7 emotions, there are plenty of other emotions in DC that are stated to not have a lantern attached to them, meaning he's not drawing from the full pool. Spiral energy on the other hand lets Simon pull power from the full emotional spectrum and more.

infinitesimally

Sir, we use real words around these parts.

Robin vs Soma Cruz
Fire Emblem vs Castlevania
who wins?

Kinda insane how much of precedence Krasura set for the show when it comes to feats vs statements. Hell, Asura was the first character to get an alt. ending because they knew their bullshit and verdict was going to be extremely controversial. Simon vs Kyle will likely be a repeat of Krasura but way more disingenuous.

oh my someone else that likes that matchup???

ill make it easy for you.
Heroes gives Robin the Win if used. Castlevania doesnt really scale to anything above judgement's time reaper being stated to be about to destroy all castlevania timelines.

In canon, Robin just doesnt have anything more than being Grima, whose country sized body would need island to small country levels of AP to fly with

However, Robin does kinda have access to a lot of other FE main characters, but none of the einherjar have the divine weapons so its not like they'll really amp up his AP range. (Multi continent Ike and Roy for example)

Life Equation

Kyle sucks total ass with it and even the mastered portrayal of it (which he does not have) was outright stated to be resistible and nullable if you have enough willpower/emotions. Like another Anon said its a will save Simon should win on

Draining

Most certainly a factor. Kyle isn't particularly great with draining and he's up against someone they can easily portray as having multiversal potency of that power. White Lantern Kyle has been rendered helpless too many times by this method to ignore. Will probably be a Doom VS Lex comparison where even if he did have draining it won't compare and also wouldn't recharge his battery

Emotional Manipulation

Basically useless on Simon and may end up just empowering him. Also Kyle only has access to seven emotions while Simon has the actual entirety of the emotional spectrum.

Lantern colors

Pretty much all useless outside of the blue green combo. Can also backfire on Kyle since it can fuck with his balance and he's not particularly adept at the use of the other ones.

It also doesn't help that DC's dimensionality is hyper inconsistent and the interpretation of GLs cosmology and such depending on what they end up using.

I think its just going to be a draw for em on most fronts and then it coming down to Infinite Spiral Power>Finite emotional spectrum and ring battery

Especially since they can bullshit something like "Simon just goes no to death now what?" with Kamina (whether or not that is actually accurate) and existential erasure with Nia

So I've ruminated on it. And after seeing today's DBC, I believe that I have reached a conclusion.
Death Battle does not believe lore Kratos.
Kratos vs Asura was very popular in the champion's tournament and DevilArtemis was already working on an animation for the concept. With the series returning, it was an eventuality that they would need to do the episode.
So they are left with a conundrum, they need to make the concept appear interesting, but the most accurate depiction of Kratos would never have a chance. So it falls to the powerscaling community's idea of a Lore Kratos.
They've applied this idea before with Trunks vs Silver, where canon vs canon is an insane stomp for Trunks (even with Super Silver). They instead opt for Xeno vs Archie instead to make it more analytically interesting.
In both cases, the decision to opt for the more powerful version of a character has led to the character that would normally lose badly to win badly.
From a video production standpoint, this is probably the better option since it aims fot content that is more engaging. However, I believe that this behavior has the long term effect that we see where some characters get massively inflated with each subsequent appearance (of either the specific character or the franchise as a whole).
I believe that this is what Death Battle means when they work on episodes in a vacuum. They aren't actually building a greater understanding of a character's capabilities but figuring out what the 'appropriate' numbers are.

Death Battle does not believe lore Kratos

What was your first clue? The terrible "reasoning" (just because we've never seen him do anything remotely like this doesn't mean he can't!) or them going out of their way to make an alt ending for a super niche IP?

alt ending was just fanrage pandering.

I mean it doesn’t look bad but I was hoping for more pixelated kino since I heard the Ghost Rider vs Spawn guy was working on it

I think the issue with comparing it to the Anti-Life Equation is that the concepts are different. The Life Equation is something you learn from outside of reality and is more so an equation of everything.
The Anti-Life Equation on the other hand is more philosophical in its conception. It is the mathematical proof for saying life has no meaning. Over time it has picked up other esoteric properties, but it remains in conception as a more magical philosophical proof instead of what we see with the Life Equation.

Lore Kratos was the most brainrot thing they brought onto the show so far. A guy who has never shown any feat greater than mountain busting level being 9 million universes strong is complete insanity. It’s even worse since his opponent was ASURA, poster child for videogame featsmen, who absolutely blows him out of water hundreds of times over when it comes to displays of visual feats. That just made the dissonance between their abilities and feats stand out even more. If Kratos was matched against someone who fights on a visual scale and pace similar to him, like Doom Slayer, it would’ve been way less jarring and more people would’ve bought Lore Kratos. Instead he got matched up against a guy exactly as strong as his games show without any exaggerated statements to compensate, making it more obvious how he was carried by chainscaling and ridiculous “lore”.

game

Game*

I would Assume Soma just has an edge because isn't Grima weak to holy weapons and Soma can wield them? I don't think Robin has anything like that.

Well my first clue was how grounded Kratos was in the animation. That was by and large just a hunch. Today's Death Battle Cast's topic of a trillion lions vs all Pokemon elucidated the notion that they are more self aware than we give them credit for.
Ben and Chad called out various powerscaling tropes like "basic scaling logic" when the argument was humans mine (>) diamonds and lions kill (>) humans, so lions beat diamonds. The way they did it was treating it as a joke though.
So I don't think they actually believe a majority of their own arguments (because they are generally narrative incompatible) and rather just pose those arguments because they make for episodes that resonate with the audience they've cultivated.

You put into words what I've been kind of feeling for a while. First began to notice it during Gioker when Giorno's RTZ was said to work on a distinctly "universal" force so as to make him sound more competitive with Joker.

There's no more matchups where one side is just obviously and unabashedly stronger than the other outside of obvious over the top memes like Omnilander or Aquaman vs SpongeBob. Something like Flash vs Quicksilver would never be made today or it would be treated like a big performance episode to shit on QS or they'd pull immeasurable speed statements for Quicksilver out of their ass somewhere.

I think the closest they've come is Frieza vs Megatron but that was a particularly bizarre case where they ignored an entire canon that both would have made the match competitive and it was also the Jap canon that made Friezatron popular in the first place. Though Goku was about to lose to Supes so I guess they gave DB a pity win in advance.

Basically useless on Simon and may end up just empowering him. Also Kyle only has access to seven emotions while Simon has the actual entirety of the emotional spectrum.

Is this canonically stated? STTGL is powered by all emotions?

Soma has the universal AP to stomp most if not all of canon FE. Anywho, the only thing Falchion does is seal the dragons away. Grima can be killed with raw strength, but Robin dies too. Yet the post credits scene kinda implied Robin can regen?

Soma might be able to use a sealing seal to get rid of Robin instead if that scene is to be taken as is.

Something about the novelization version which has Simon be described like "He was sorrow, he was rage" etc

what did it say?

He's referring to this

"Nia entered the cockpit of the Lagann, along with Simon. Each Lagann merged into Gurren Lagann. It was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of. The feelings that each of us had in our respective universes appeared in the form of a drill, breaking through the wall. It was appearing in the form of two shapes and sizes, and they became one. If you have no choice but to fight, do not hesitate. We are not afraid to ask for power. If there's a wall, we'll hit and break it, if there's no way, we'll make it with our own hands! No, more. Breaks through cause, effect and fate, the cry of life resounds in the galaxy yet, more. Engrave the feelings of a friend in this body, and turn infinite darkness into light! -That's it. A power greater than the stars, greater than the galaxies. A power greater than dimension and time."

So with the massive initial power difference, what stops Kyle from 1 shotting Simon a before he gets stronger?

the same thing that stops every other matchup where the base forms are wildly different in power level from ending in a oneshot

Simon going "no"