Which series did more harm to the capeshit genre?
Which series did more harm to the capeshit genre?
Dark Knight Returns, 100%
Introduced fascism into comics.
watchmen for sure
started the intellectual boring comic fan
Which series did more harm to the capeshit genre?
The Death of Superman and the Spider-Man Clone Saga
Both fed into collector bubble fomo shit that crashed the industry, forced you to buy multiple different titles to follow the full story, and both shattered any remaining trust in deaths actually mattering in capeshit. All your two comics did was make a bunch of annoying pseuds start calling comics graphic novels.
This
The only real harm I can think of is that both of these equally inspired the wrong people (like Bendis and Tom King) to become comic book writers.
Other than that, they did harm to me by getting me into this medium.
Watchmen's influence hurt comics. TDKR's influence helped comics.
This is nonsense and this poster is a faggot.
This poster is 100% right.
This poster is even more correct.
Non did more harm. The artists who thought they make the next Watchmen/Darkknight did more harm.
Image did more harm to the comic industry than thise two series!
Watchmen's influence hurt comics. TDKR's influence helped comics.
TDKRs edgy brutality did more harm by creating edgy comics. Watchmens subversion did more harm to comics storytelling.
This is nonsense.
they both did harm to the genre but is the real deal
the best cape comics of all time
fuck off contrarian
Why? Watchmen is less gory, brutal edgy. But when you look at 90s comics, they tend to be very violent. So Watchmen cant be responsible for that part of 90s edgyness.
TDKN is very straight forward in its story, there is no secret or subversion of your expectations. So this Shyamalan-ism you have in the 90s cant be from it.
Both are only gritty and moody.
But there were alot of these comics in the mid/late 80s.
So i dont see it as nonsense.
The worst thing you can argue TDKR did was inspiring the plethora of very unimaginative 'old superhero comes back' imitators and turning the whole premise into a cliche, none of which did it even nearly as compelling except Logan I guess.
Watchmen completely destroyed the foundation of superheroism by inspiring entire generations of pretentious amoral hacks into thinking politics, rape, CRAAAAZY heroes, gore and nihilism was for big boys and was imperative for superheroes to become grown up.
None of them. Manga harmed them. Now comics try to adapt.
delusional
Watchmen is less gory
Objectively false.
What a Image! abslute iconic, thanks for that collage.
The fact that the Image guys started doing the TV news screens after DKR is the most immediate proof that the Image crowd were reading annd influenced more by DKR than watchmen. Watchmen’s story is influential in theory. But none of the 90s comic were attempting to imitate watchmen’s page structure- they were trying to do the opposite with big , rendered splash pages compared to Watchmen’s 9 panel grid and relatively restrained, borderline ligne claire art.
any remaining trust in deaths actually mattering in capeshit.
killing characters becoming a big deal and using SOMEONE DIES as a way to hype a book is fine
It's bringing them back after we realized we screwed up, that's what the problem is
Why are you people like this?
Also, the industry crash had already happened before the Clone Saga even started.
How dare they leave Marvel and make their own books.
This is retarded. They were both good books and the only harm they did was hacks trying to replicate their success without understanding what made them good.
Now this is actually a case of bad comics introducing negative comic trends.
Killing off a character is fine, it's when you immediately bring them back to life after killing them off that it becomes absolutely retarded. Either you commit or don't do it at all, backing out after already doing it is the worst possible thing you can do.
They didn't start the fire. Maximum Carnage predates the clone saga and you can trace that back further to the Mutant Massacre, Marvel's first big crossover which happened because Secret Wars as a self-contained crossover maxiseries was such a big success. Ultimately the buyers are to blame for buying these stories.
Killing off a character is fine, it's when you immediately bring them back to life after killing them off that it becomes absolutely retarded.
Dragon Ball did this all the time and it didn't hurt it one bit.
Image comics had a lot of great ideas and possible unique storylines but overall they fell into the same cycle other publishers had
Savage dragon started out great now it’s just modern political no war and the writers fetish, seriously the son of savage dragon and Walmart Storm had massive potential to be good for a lighting based powerhouse
Spawn should’ve just ended at issue 100 as it reached its pinnacle climax now it’s nonsense storylines that go nowhere and contradicts all other plots.
Supreme, a super flawed Superman knockoff that got rebranded by Alan Moore to be just another generic superman
The rest require you to read over a dozen side stories and a wiki pages worth backgrounds to even understand what’s going on.
The only successful one was Invincible because it ended when it needed to end and just took all the good parts of other stories like Superman and Dragon Ball
Death of Superman was never backing out, it was always planned to be a temporary thing resolved by the end of the arc.
Dragonball Z has absolute garbage writing
Then that's even more retarded
Shut up retard
So you're saying they intentionally wrote something where they would market the hell out of killing a character as a cheap marketing ploy only to immediately bring them back? You're saying that's a good thing?
I'm not the retard that thinks DBZ has good writing lol
Introduced fascism into comics.
They figured they oughta keep up after X-Men had been teaching kids race realism.
Dragonball Z has absolute garbage writing
So did golden/silver age Superman, and a bunch of kids loved it.
Death of Superman wasn't a particularly good story, but "this person you thought dead actually wasn't" is something that happens even in serious literature, it's fine as a concept.
we're still suffering the effects of the "dark, gritty, grounded Batman" to this day
Dragon Ball did this all the time and it didn't hurt it one bit.
The premise of Dragon Ball is "You can do a wish - even bringing back dead people". But first, you have to deal with the Bad Guy, or people will just die again.
They are two halves of the same thing.
It is less gory. It is much more like James Bond versus Rambo. Dont mix it up with the movie. The movie did make the violence more gory.
But not mine, found it.
Did you read the book or just watch the movie? Cause while there are horrific moments in Watchmen a lot of it is more understated compared to DKR
How dare they leave Marvel and make their own books.
Yes, but no. They were correct to leave them because of the treatment and contracts. But they didnt really did it better. They just fractured the comic market and produced more speculative series. They decided they have enough with the big two and decided to pour oil into the speculator bubble.
You forget all those series that got axed afte4 a couple of issues. And most series ran into the problem what to do with their property, Wildcats, Gen13 and other had no real story behind them.
make good comics
comic fans forever blame you for the work of others
We don't deserve good comics.
As a concept, sure, killing off a character and bringing them back is fine. It's absolutely retarded to market that shit as "we're killing off this character for real you guys!" then immediately bringing them back. Like I said, it's a cheap and shameless tactic to try and drum up sales at the cost of creative integrity.
Something being popular doesn't mean it's good.
It’s less blaming the comics and more blaming the fandom that resulted from these that try to force all other stories/characters to follow a similar path.
Its like a shitty millennial writer make all heroes they get their hands on drug addicts or suicidal depressed adults just to make them “relatable” to their boring life’s.
None, they are both fine.
The harm was gone by cinematic adaptationd.
It was a Dan Jurgens story, the guy is the very definition of mediocre. Without the marketing stunts, no one would think anything of his run.
You forgot the darkness comics, one of the few anti-hero stories that was fun to read where the main goal in the beginning was to create the perfect sex doll construct and having a hitman mafia guy kill off other gangs and supernatural powers. Then the new writers came along and pussified the character where he apologises to women for being a sex addict, killed off his mafia family to be a regular hero like the other jerkoffs and basically ruined what made the character appealing in the first place.
Eh, the Darkness comics always sucked. Vidya was superior in every way.