Death Battle

OH NO!
HE'S NOT GONNA GO
3 - 0

Simonbros...

Toonxisters...

ENOUGH.

ENTER.

Now this is a high-class bout.

Post immeasurable characters

Waku waku........

Frieren mages actually struggle big time against warriors in universe, add on top that sukuna can just straight up dodge supersonic attacks like piercing blood should mean this fight could go either way depending on who makes the first move.

Not being Toonami Tom to further make it wrong characters and for the double joke of it being another blue robot for Wily to fight

not Tom Hanks

Is this really a debate? Sukuna can just do the Gojo thing and Frieren won’t know dogshit

Simon Vs. Ben 10

vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_X

Hypeverse level

That's enough.
Let's get back to Oa

KRATOS IS SO FUARKING POWERFUL...HE literally PROJECTED a BOUNDLESS AVATAR into MY FICTIONAL COSMOLOGY and NEG-DIFFED it...

Villainbros.... I'm QUAKING at the sheer HEROISM of this matchup.....

Ben 10 probably wins under Death Battle logic since they said that doing a basic cartoon pastiche like “fictionalizing another universe and becoming the author” is Outerversal, and Alien X canonically does this since every retcon is explained inverse as celestialsapiens just changing the plot of the show

SIMON IS THE HYPE-VERSE

I think there are some heroes who literally can’t kill each other at the end of the day. The Flashes can just instantly respawn from the Speedforce which the new Wally run makes the dreamer of the comic and Sentry can just retcon himself back into existence whenever he dies. It probably ends in a stalemate.

Time huh? Thanks for the tip

Kamina, after many attempts at impregnation with your HIV+ seed from Yoko and Nia's cunts I'm finally pregnant with my very own wholesome SPIRAL baby

Wait, something's wrong. I feel like I'm about to give birth, but how can that be? You just pozzed my bussy yesternight?

Holy shit Kamina there is no mistake the spiral baby is coming out. Your spiral child is coming out of my prolapsed asshole, Kamina you're going to be a father

BRAAAAAAAAAAP

KAMINA IT'S HERE. HE'S COMING OUT OF ME. IT'S PROLAPSING MY RECTUM. COME ON LITTLE KAMINA JR I'LL NEED YOU TO FUCK YOKO AND NIA NEXT

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPP

KAMINA I CAN SEE HIS HEAD, I CAN SEE HIS LITTLE ROUND DEFORMED FOREHEAD AND HIS BLUE WAVY HAIR. I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HIS BVLL LIPS

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPFTTTTTT

HOLY SHIT KAMINA IT'S OUT!! OUR SON IS OUT, THE KYLECHUDS SAID THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. BUT KAMINA WHY ISN'T HE CRYING?? WHY ISN'T HE CRYING TYRONE??? WHY ISN'T YOKO AND NIA'S LITTLE FAGGOT CUNT CRYING AND KICKING AND SCREAMING??? IS IT STILLBORN OR DID MY INFERIOR GENES MAKE IT DOCILE AND COMPLIANT??? KAMINA PLEASE DO SOMETHING BECAUSE I'M A KEKY LOSER WHO CAN ONLY WATCH FROM THE BUSHES

blows air inside the turd and inflates it

KAMINA HELP ME OUR BABY IS DEAD HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BREED YOKO AND NIA WITH HIS BKC

I assume if this ever happens it will be a select roster on both sides. I get the impression they're kind of prepping themselves to do it sometime in the next couple years.
What metric would people want for that? I had a look at the top 10 most consistent members on both sides (counting spin off teams like West Coast) and you end up with a surprisingly good roster for both.

I know what you are

Pic rel, assuming these are accurate, first the Avengers
reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/1j3giyn/the_top_10_most_reoccurring_avengers_from_its/

Again that ignores the beauty of Wily vs another blue Robot.

Then Justice League
reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/1evz1zb/discussion_here_are_the_10_most_prominent_justice/
Guy who made this says that if you cut down the Flashes to one then the next in-line would be Atom. He goes into pretty specific details so I can buy it

The main problem with JLA vs Avengers under Death Battle is that both teams just get carried by the heavy-hitters and the rest of the members are basically filler whose research would be a total waste of time under the show’s methodology

A big thing with team battles would be strategy, tactics, and general intelligence which don’t really work under a Death Battle lense

Spatio-Temporal Axis Simultaneous Shooting

Probability Alteration Missiles

Vortex Cannon Maximum

Multidimensional Probability Variation Control

Am I the only one who thinks Gurren Lagann having very scientifically specific moves is funny

It doesn't really work under any lense, realistically it basically should just come down to Superman vs Thor or Scarlet Witch or something. That's even how JLA/Avengers itself kind of depicted.

sailor moon vs sakura/madoka

remilia scarlet vs rachel alucard

madotsuki vs omori

luz vs anne

marisa vs misaka mikoto

any homura fight

Any other matchups for this feel?

People really are hyping up a guy that can pierce dimensions vs a guy that has a pocket dimension inside his body. Kinda crazy.

I mean the question becomes “why doesn’t Tony just give every Avenger Galactus-Busters, and Hank uses pym particles to make them bigger than the universe, and Wanda uses her probability manipulation so that none of them could get hit and they have a 100% chance of winning”, etc.

You might as well just do “all Marvel in one character vs all DC in one character” then which is basically what every Marvel vs DC fight is now in Death Battle, with results basically just randomized by anti-feats (so Phoenix loses since she has an anti-feat against soul manipulation, or Black Adam loses since he has an anti-feat against power stealing)

HAL SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

So for Reverse Flash vs Goku Black, Death Battle ruled that Black was acausal from his Time Ring. But aren't Dragon Ball characters typically acausal in a general sense?

YOU STAY AWAY FROM NIA OR I'LL DRILL YOUR ASS THROUGH YOUR GOD DAMN MOUTH

The pocket dimension isn’t “in” Alien X, it’s outside of space and time and the Alien X we see on screen is projected into the universe

It’s basically the Super Spiral Universe. Paradox even says the forge (where the celestialsapiens live) is where ideas become reality and they just live in a state of constant philosophical dialectic just thinking about anything instead of actually doing anything (but these debates constantly change the plot of the show as an after-effect)

I think team dynamics probably feel like they should be more important than they actually logically are. I guess the JLA having an MMH mid link would help at least.

First of all mages struggling against warriors means jack shit for Vs debating, the strength of Frieren's warriors has nothing to do with the strength of JJK sorcerers
Second Frieren can react to lightning attacks and fight from much greater distances, plus her AP turbomogs Sukuna's strongest attack
There's no universe this fight is anything but Frieren going "woah, look at that weird magic" before Turning Sukuna into Pou

They are not acausal, their setting is.

Actually it does since Todo, Maki and Yuji can throw hands with Sukuna

Second Frieren can react to lightning attacks and fight from much greater distances,

I don’t do lightning dodging since for the most part, it’s not really an accurate measure, anymore so than laser dodging. That distances things sound better, what’s her peak range?

Marina Vs Buddy for Loliguro kino
don't say it

Realistically what would happen in a Death Battle would be that they constantly kill each other (and resurrect each other) until they figure out they’re being trapped in a computer simulation and they team up and give Ben and Chad a cease-and-desist, with this just being the in-joke explanation for why an actual fight would be a “stalemate” because of this logic If Marvel vs DC is settled through anti-feats, having a team of characters that can do anything means that one character’s anti-feats are just covered by another character, so even if you say “but Wanda is mentally unstable” you can just say Tony has some technobabble invention that can calm her nerves, etc.

There’s no real way to end that fight except for having them either fight forever or just transcend the narrative dynamic of them fighting since that’s what both settings do. Would be a cool callback to Segata vs Chuck, and they already did something like that in J’onn vs Norrin.

brat match ups

This is a Milf thread, post good fights involving women of age with children

So? Irrelevant because Simon can still get to him.

Ben has no feats inside that pocket universe of his. He would be a sitting duck.

Alien X is a shittier version of Arceus. And Arceus is pretty piss if we're going to say it. Doctor Doom would beat both, and Doom would lose to any Green Lantern. And Simon beats them all.

No... you can't.... I WON'T LET YOU!

I can't believe they canonized Dormammu's weakness to time powers. The guy is piss now, he would be no diffed by Trigon.

the chaos gods?

dominated the warp consumed into coldharbor

But Ben in that pocket dimension is just another thought-form like Simon is in the super spiral universe, him “teleporting” in would just be him attempting to usurp Ben’s thought-domain (Alien X) with his own (the Super Spiral Universe) which would both be a stalemate since both their highest feats of extending their domains would be “Outerversal” (Otoko Simon, and Celestialsapiens rewriting the show)

And then Ben wins under Death Battle logic since Alien X has all powers in the show including basic soul magic which the G1 blog (who know the researchers) said would work on Simon, kwab.

doesn't Lucifer have one of the highest calculable speed feats in fiction (according to VSBW)?

Can’t. Same problem with Kyle, X can do soul stuff… in THEORY, but he’s never shown mastery enough for it to make a difference

Simon doesn’t beat Doom, Gwenpool tried the same “transcend the comic” thing against him that Otoko did and he no-sold that

But the thing is that Ben is the only one with a hypothetical wincon there and therefore would eventually use it and win against Simon

The G1 blog used the probability anti-feat against Kyle as an explanation for Simon’s probability missiles being his only wincon, and he would be more likely to use that than Kyle’s soul hax, but since Alien X exists above the entire multiverse there’s no possible universe the probability missiles can select for him to lose

...

I'm only familiar with the lisa games, never beat termina. Is the theme that they live in a brutal setting and had to pretend to be the opposite sex in order to not get btfo?
How about both?

If Trigon fights Dormammu they will give at least a point to Dormammu in the jobbing category. Because at least Dormammu only gets beaten by adults.

Imagine if Nolan raised Mark on the TTGL version of Earth. The Viltrumites would be scared shitless

actually that was a Doombot that did that, not the actual stronger Doom

Wouldn't that be a quality that a character would inherit from their setting though?

Big Boss vs Nick Fury

who wins?

Also the Omnitrix just copies Simon’s DNA and gives Ben the capacity for spiral-power, since it’s canon that every spiral-being has the same capacity as Simon does (hence Spiral Nemesis was such a big deal), and Ben has as much motivation/will as Simon does

WHY ISN'T HE CRYING TYRONE???

You missed a spot saar

so can Dexter breathe in space like Jimmy can or no?

Wonder of U vs Notorious B.I.G

Are we all forgetting that Alien X is 26D, higher than both Simon AND DC? Really, he should’ve beat Hal, according to the dimensionality rules that Kymon established.

dormammu?

the dark deminsion conquered

shuma gorath?

the chaos deminsion frozen

the Anti-Spiral was canonically on the same power level as Tengen toppa gurren lagann and he still got drilled. what makes you think Ben would be able to get the jump on Simon with something he's already dealt with before

Imagine if Simon drilling through the Source Wall carried him and Kyle into the Death Battle/Wiz and Boomstick office. Wiz, wanting Kyle to win, gives him the Life Equation. Boomstick, wanting Simon to win, just reacts by saying, "Holy shit! This is fucking awesome!"

Molag is literally unkillable. Even if you destroy his body, he will eventually regenerate a new one in Oblivion. Even worse, this applies to ALL Daedra.

Death is like blinking to them. One inspiration before the next.

Really, he should’ve beat Hal, according to the dimensionality rules that Kymon established.

at a base level.

"however that doesn't never mean kyle gets the edge. because if there's one thing these guys are known for, it's that they can always get stronger"

FLASH SOLOS, FIGHT ME BITCH

Anti-Spiral limited himself in order to avoid Spiral Nemesis and hence didn’t use Spiral Power’s capacity for infinite growth and evolution, while Simon did.

Ben could just copy Simon’s DNA (since all Spiral Beings are capable of what he could do), and then just not limit himself in whatever power he could use, *on top* of Alien X. This might nuke the whole multiverse but Ben would survive by just turning into a ghost or some shit since there is no spiritual dimension in Gurren Lagann, just physical and mental ones.

yeah one problem, retard. Simon isn't an alien.

you can transform them into a different Daedra which is functionally killing them

I agree except Alien X would clap Arceus in every scenario.

they have the exact same feats.

what being "potential man"?

Wasn’t some of that Servantis as well?

Also Alien X is susceptible to Energy Absorption, and some of the haxes Simon is good at is...

Mephisto vs Trigon is a way better match.

So you didn’t watch Gurren Lagann? Helical DNA in GL are spirals so any life form with that DNA form have the capacities for Spiral Power. So Ben just scans Simon, gets Spiral DNA, and then has the same capacity of Spiral Power as Simon has.

That too. But I meant Universe creation. But maybe your right. At least Alien X did that on screen.

Any match up that will feature XJ9

What feats?

Can they tank this though

Mephisto is dimeless due to how boring he is. No one wants that match up. It has to be Dormammu.

All that means is that at best he ties. Ben ain’t exactly known for having willpower in the same way Simon does.

The one SHARTnic fans would kill to have. Universe creation.

Yeah, but it takes someone a lot stronger than them to do this. The biggest case I know is what Alduin did to turn the Leaping Demon King into Mehrunes Dagon. In that case, the one who did this was the Aedra that destroys the world at the end of each kalpa/cycle, who was at full power.

Is her most requested matchup still Robotboy?

You say that as If Ben would have any idea how to use it right off the bat. ALSO. DUMBASS. HE DOESN'T HAVE A GUNMAN.

Enough, my children. Cease arguing over infinitely weak and insignificant fictional characters. Go outside today, say a prayer.

AI Slop

post Arceus creating a universe

He actually did. Ben didn't. He just recreatd it. No proof whatsoever that Ben created time.

Every Spiral Being has the capacity to grow infinitely, their “willpower” is dictated on whether they could control their power so they don’t collapse the entire universe into Spiral Nemesis by using it unwisely, and Ben did the same exact thing in Alien X. And even with Spiral Nemesis, Gurren Lagann as a verse is only physical and conceptual, there’s no spiritual element of existence, so even if Spiral Nemesis nuked everything, the failsafe would turn Ben into a spirit and he would continue existing. And Ben 10’s erasure not only erased existence, but non-existence as well (which never happened in Gurren Lagann), so he could probably survive anyways without being turned into a spirit.

Spiral Power is literally just willing to do something and it happens. No different form Alien X, and he has Alien X as his Gunman. He can just turn into super-STTGL where Alien X has an Alien X. It wouldn’t be close.

NTA and I don't have a dog in this race, but doesn't omnitrix turn Ben into the "peak potential" of the species in question?
So potentially this would turn Ben into someone on the verge of deteoriating into the Spiral Nemesis?

Space-Time Manipulation

Sub-Atomic Matter Manipulation

Antimatter Manipulation

Gravity Manipulation

Causality Manipulation

Type 2 Information Manipulation

Absorption

Void Manipulation

Bow to your hole-ey GOD

post it

you didn't address the experience argument

ben turn into a spirit

Lmao what kinda retard shit is this? Spirits aren’t aliens you dumb faggot.

Are you seriously pulling the “Luke wins any fight without soul hax b/c he turns into a Force Ghost when he dies” argument, but with Ben 10?

this is canonically what the anti-spiral feared

Call me when they have the guts to put Altair (let alone Yogiri) in one of these...

They and Team Dai-Gurren, however can seemingly by themselves induce and survive Big Crunch, as well as walk on and bust throuth galaxies full of them

the failsafe would turn Ben into a spirit and he would continue existing.

IS THIS FAGGOT SERIOUS

Even Boota was capable of using Spiral Power despite being a literal animal to fight the Anti-Spiral. Simon’s experience of using Spiral Power happened in the fight with Anti-Spiral, meaning that if Ben was in the same situation he would similarly adapt (since he’s much smarter than Simon is).

In canon, since Spiral Nemesis is an actuality, *every single being with Spiral Power* would be capable of using it to the same extent as Simon could with enough time, and since they could all infinitely grow Simon wouldn’t be able to stop it. So canonically there’s an example of every being with Simon’s DNA having the capacity to do what Simon did without any experience. Ben just copies Simon’s DNA, combines that with his already superior equivalent power set to Simon in Alien X, and becomes a Simon that’s smarter, stronger at the baseline, and has stronger forms of existence erasure and spiritual powers which Simon has no resistance to. Even saying “but Simon can come back from his information being erased” doesn’t matter, since Rex’s universe is canon to Ben 10 and it’s stated in that show that his universe is made from information and basic universe-erasers which Alien X no-sold survived that, and Alien X can erase the void those universe-erasers wiped the information-universe to.

he hasn’t watched the show

KWAB

They had to do to quick before Kyle got a Life Equation feat because they knew if they waited too long it would be over

Who should Guy fight?

Knuckles

No. That’s just one element of the argument. Even then, Alien X’s form of existence erasure and resistance is more layered than anything in Gurren Lagann, so the Spiral Nemesis wouldn’t even effect Alien X even if you don’t want to use that argument. It’s just an additional argument that since Gurren Lagann as a fictional setting has no metaphysics of souls or spirits, just a metaphysics of minds and bodies, Ben turning into a spirit which in his setting is separate from minds and bodies as forms would just survive the entire cosmology nuke of the Spiral Nemesis destroying all minds and bodies. But since his mind and body has survived stronger erasure, he wouldn’t need that.

There WAS that one time he actually did eat Jerry and the duckling in the Hanna-Barbera shorts.

Lukebros, our force ghost?

Even Boota was capable of using Spiral Power despite being a literal animal to fight the Anti-Spiral. Simon’s experience of using Spiral Power happened in the fight with Anti-Spiral, meaning that if Ben was in the same situation he would similarly adapt (since he’s much smarter than Simon is).

BECAUSE HE'S SIMON'S BUDDY WHO WAS EXPOSED TO SPIRAL POWER FOR LITERAL YEARS JUST BY TAGGING ALONG. YOU ACTUAL FUCKING RETARD

Firstly, Ben wouldn’t scan Simon since he’s human. Secondly, Ben’s will power is nowhere close to Simon’s. Thirdly, he will not magically know how Spiral power works. Fourthly, Alien X is chump change compared to the Anti-Spiral. Finally, the Spiral Nemesis doesn’t actually exist and the whole point of it was to show that the anti spirals were scared bitches too afraid to live because something MIGHT go wrong.

And did Boota ever have experience with Spiral Power such that he could fucking grow into a universe before that fight? No. Meanwhile Ben does have experience with a power system that can allow him to grow bigger than an entire universe, and it’s canon that since Spiral Nemesis is a thing every being with the capacity of Spiral Power would eventually get to Simon’s level and he would have no way to stop it.

Ben with Alien X already can’t be killed by Simon (Simon has no wincons against him), so Ben could just stack Spiral Power on top of that to just insta-win. But even without that, he can still erase Simon on a level beyond anything in his setting.

Dimension-counting is useless and once authors figure out they can cheese death battle with it you'll see someone "break 1 trillion dimensions" as a feat

AI Jesus vs AI Mohammad

Do benfags forget the watch has a time limit

R > F barely qualifies as a pocket universe desu

no other previous toon fight used "toon logic" to justify the outcome post-season 3 with them either being stomps via feats or logical stalemates via hax

but apparently this'll be the reason Tommy wins

kek

Ben wouldn’t scan Simon since he’s human

If he sees him doing shit like growing to the size of a universe he would, since even if he didn’t expect him to be not human, he could believe he has alien DNA like he does. But even then Ben doesn’t need to scan Simon’s DNA to win.

Ben’s willpower is nowhere near Simon’s

According to whom? Simon’s big willpower feat at the end of the story was him controlling his infinite power so he doesn’t blow up the universe with it, and Ben did that with Alien X already. And canonically since Spiral Power is a thing, all beings in Simon’s verse will eventually get to the level of his willpower just by having the same DNA as him.

he will not magically know how Spiral Power works

Already countered in Ben already using power systems similar to Spiral Power in Alien X, having an infinite amount of time to use it since Alien X cannot be killed by Simon, and every being in Simon’s verse being able to use it just by having Spiral DNA without Simon being able to do anything about it.

Alien X is chump change

No he isn’t. He’s a thought-form above the infinite dimensional multiverse which trivializes it as fiction. Same as Simon.

Spiral Nemesis doesn’t actually exist

It can possibly exist, which is all that’s needed for this argument to hold (since it’s possible that all beings with Spiral DNA can reach Simon’s level without knowing anything about it, Ben with a mastery of a similar power system over infinite time could learn to use it). This is all besides the fact that he doesn’t even need to use it to win, but he still can.

Not at peak.

Holy fuck alduin just fucking ate the entire infinite multiverse and reset it what a boss

Alien X doesn’t function like Spiral Power you glazing retard.

P-proof that Simon’s Will is stronger???

Yeah the fact that Ben has given up countless times while Simon never has and that his Will is so strong he broke out of a multiversal labyrinth mind trap.

Alien X sees as fiction

lol no he doesn’t you inbred wanker.

Alien X is—

Alien X couldn’t even restore the universe without imperfections. The Anti-Spiral can erase concepts and shoot out infinite big bangs. Fodder X ain’t nothing.

me after tanking the infinite multiverse being eaten and reset…

I agree with most of what he says here, the only thing I don't agree with is that Popeye can't beat Goku.
youtube.com/watch?v=I5nEpQwp9Xc&ab_channel=ATARi_HMB

Nia alone shows that Simon can resist being erased from reality, similar to your old buddy Hal. also STTGL is above time and dimensions. Alien X's time manipulation would be useless. Stay in your lane, benfag. Stay in your fucking lane.

Alien X doesn’t function like Spiral Power

Except they both can do anything except you can’t do too much anything or the universe explodes. And Ben controlled it and achieved mastery over it such that he could use it all he wanted unlike Simon.

Ben has given up countless times while Simon never has

I mean, except he didn’t? Even when all versions of Ben in the multiverse blew up Ben won and didn’t give up, and at the end he succeeded in whatever he needed to do (and didn’t give up) while Simon didn’t either. And all beings with Spiral DNA are capable of infinitely generating willpower which is how all of them could reach Simon’s level for Spiral Nemesis, meaning Ben could just copy Simon’s willpower effectively.

lol no he doesn’t

Except he does, because it’s canon that all the retcons in the show and art-style changes are a result of the Celestialsapiens debating in their thought-realm above the universe.

Alien X couldn’t even restore the universe without imperfections

Because Ben isn’t infinitely intelligent and that was his first time using Alien X. This is like using ‘but Simon couldn’t bring back Nia’ as an argument.

"Toon logic" is literally the only reason any toon has any kind of abilities at all.

I don't understand why powerscalers continue to hype up universe creation in a fight. Okay, the battle has started and you've created a universe, now what?

Why do Alien X glazers ignore Galactic Gladiator? Alien X ain’t that strong, he could barely beat another celestialsapien lol.

Nia alone shows that Simon can resist being erased from reality

I know. She resisted being erased on an informational level, but Generator Rex (which is canon to Ben 10) stated that all universes in reality are information, the Anihilargh could wipe down those universes down to the White Void, and Alien X could nuke the entire cosmology out of existence including the White Void and realms hierarchically above it.

This is not to mention that Alien X completely no-sold information erasure while Nia was impacted by it and could only reverse it. So his resistance and erasure are both more potent.

Time manipulation is a non-factor.

Actually, even if you go “Celestialsapiens” change the Art Style. That’s just Avant Simon level who’s already been absorbed Pre TTGL.

Not to mention. Alien X in Ben 10 has never functioned on any level above 3D. Unlike the As, it has always been perceived and even Kevin when not using his powers can lift Ben when in Alien X form , inplying weight and height of a 3 Dimensioanl Being.

Actually, humans in Ben 10 and real life alrrady have the same helix. So it can’t skin what’s essentially something it already has. It’s just Ben 10 humans are unable to generate Spiral Energy

Ben isn’t infinitely intelligent and that was his first time using Alien X

SO YOU ADMIT HE'S INEXPERIENCED THEN? then what makes you think he'd know how to use Spiral Power you absolute RETARD

Spiral Nemesis means that Simon can’t beat someone as powerful as him (Anti-Spiral wasn’t since he limited his production of Spiral Energy to avoid Spiral Nemesis) while Ben could beat someone as powerful as him.

Holy FUARK. If you root for Tom your hard drive should be investigated.

Actually, the Galactic Gladiator is another anti feat. It’s notabky defeated by Ben forcing it to focus on multiple targets. Which Simon’s own attacks wor just fine on

cat years

, the Anihilargh could wipe down those universes down to the White Void, and Alien X could nuke the entire cosmology out of existence including the White Void and realms hierarchically above it.

And Nia could resist being nuked on that kind of level

And she isn't even the strongest in this regard

What point are you even trying to make here?

any character has abilities by showing them using the abilities

seventeen in cat years? that's even worse for Tom

Dude you are retarded if you think Alien X’s physical body is anything other than a projection from the Forge. Paradox says that Celestialsapiens in the Forge are literally just ideas given form and are above all time and space, their bodies are just projections.

If you want to use your DNA logic then just by verse equalization Ben has the capacity of Spiral Power. I was being charitable to you by saying Ben would at least have to scan Simon, but that makes it easier for me.

Both Ben and Simon are capable of arbitrary jumps above fiction under DB logic since they could do it once, and Alien X is already the prime version of a Celestialsapien, so he’s the prime version of a being that could arbitrarily fictionalize anything such that reboots and other settings (including other Ben 10 “fictions”) are just dreams by them. He could beat other beings that could do these things as well. The extent of fictional manipulation done by Celestialsapiens is beyond anything in GL.

spacebattles

comicsvine

vsbw

whowouldwin

What's the real difference between them?

Right, and the only reason toons have toon abilities is because of toonforce/logic
Tom, Will.E, Bugs, Droopy, ect, are just oridinary animals in the context of their settings, there's no special reason any of them can do what they do besides, "it's funny"

Galactic Gladiator is weaker than Omni-Man

Yes? He was inexperienced the first time he used Alien X. I never claimed that with Alien X he’s omniscient, but again it’s like using Simon being unable to bring Nia back.
The point is that information erasure wipes down universes to the White Void, which Alien X could erase. So Alien X can erase an informationless White Void from existence, so his erasure works on a layer above the informational.

Nia was in the process of being erased and could resist it, while Alien X just stood there while the entire universe was being wiped on an informational level and wasn’t even affected, and then just recreated all the information in the universe.

You can use the same logic as “but the Spiral Nemesis is a universe-sized black hole, which means Simon would job to a black hole”. Ignoring how Gladiator reconstituted himself from that (meaning under this logic Gladiator >>> Simon if you want to be sensationalist), it was created by another Celestialsapien.

No no you outright said he could copy Simon's DNA and harness spiral power. and you made a ridiculous assumption that he'd know how to use it off the bat. you cannot state bullshit like that while contradicting yourself and say "Ben was inexperienced with Alien X". which is it.

The point is that information erasure wipes down universes to the White Void, which Alien X could erase. So Alien X can erase an informationless White Void from existence, so his erasure works on a layer above the informational.

No he didn't. Alien X didn't "erase" the void dumb dumb, he filled it in, with a new universe that was near identical to the old one.
Don't try to make up feats for the ones he already did. That's stupid even for this place

Ooh! Now you’re angry. One, Celestialsapiens even I the FoC are shown as physical to the point everyone else are standing on their hands, post where it’s six they’re made of thought.

Paradox says that Celestialsapiens in the Forge are literally just ideas given form and are above all time and space, their bodies are just projections.

If you want to use your DNA logic then just by verse equalization Ben has the capacity of Spiral Power. I was being charitable to you by saying Ben would at least have to scan Simon, but that makes it easier for me.

Why woudl we do that that’s like saying Yuji vs Izuku means Deku should get CE and use it

Both Ben and Simon are capable of arbitrary jumps above fiction under DB logic since they could do it once, and Alien X is already the prime version of a Celestialsapien, so he’s the prime version of a being that could arbitrarily fictionalize anything such that reboots and other settings (including other Ben 10 “fictions”) are just dreams by them. He could beat you other beings that could do these things as well. The extent of fictional manipulation done by Celestialsapiens is beyond anything in GL.

Changing the art style? Better than effecting tye real world?

So Omni-Man is stronger than the Galactic Gladiator and Anti-Spiral? That does work for me

but the Spiral Nemesis is a universe-sized black hole

Will you stop making shit up?

Thor victim.

Wait, how old is Tom? I thought he was a young cat.

That would never happen. Thor's like 6'6'' and over 600 pounds, he'd never make weight

I don’t know how to dumb-it-down for you anymore, either you accept that the DNA for Spiral Beings is unique (in which case Ben would have it through scanning) or just generally the structure of the DNA (in which case Ben would have it through existing in the same universe as Simon). You can’t have it either way here.

The “experience argument” is a non-issue given that it’s canon that any being with Spiral DNA would hypothetically be able to reach Simon’s level under the Spiral Nemesis scenario, Ben already using something that can do anything like Spiral Energy can, and having infinite time to figure it out since Simon can’t kill Ben.

I never said he erased the void. I said the void is within the cosmology which Alien X could wipe using statements from the show, and he also would see the entirety of the show (including the void) as fiction to begin with. It’s not that complicated.

What's the STRONGEST board in all of Anon Babble? I'm thinking the top candidates are Anon Babble because of Death Battle threads, Anon Babble because of KINGtos alone, or Anon Babble because of bearCHADS

"Leave Simon to us..."

The levle of wank and retardation. It goes as follows:

VSBW >>> Comicvine >> Spacebattles >>>>>>>>> r/whowouldwin

Ben has nothing like Spirl Power.

Simon can’t kill him

Yes he can? Lmao? He killed the AS who has far better durability and regeneration than anything in Ben 10.

Your post is formatted like garbage but I’ll try to make sense of it.

even in the FoC are shown as physical

…yes? You can’t show something in a cartoon that isn’t in a physical style, this is like saying that the Super Spiral Universe is made out of atoms because they’re doing things like standing around and throwing things.

”b-b-but the human characters are there!”

Just like Ben in the Alien X dimension with the two personalities is “there”, even though he’s canonically translated into a personality there. He’s not physical.

means Deku should get CE

It doesn’t since you can just say their power systems are unique and aren’t generalized. But in this scenario you can say that Ben could then just copy his DNA since he doesn’t have the same type. If you say they have the same type, then he gets Spiral Power anyway. It’s a Catch-22.

better than effecting tye real world?

They’re both on the level of seeing another universe as fiction and being able to do anything they want to it as a writer can for a story. It’s just that Simon upscales this by absorbing this character, and Alien X by being the prime version of a Celestialsapien and just any arbitrary one being able to do this. They both upscale it.

The “experience argument” is a non-issue given that it’s canon that any being with Spiral DNA would hypothetically be able to reach Simon’s level

Yeah in like a fucking decade. And yes, it is an issue.

I never said he erased the void.

Yes you did

The point is that information erasure wipes down universes to the White Void, which Alien X could erase. So Alien X can erase an informationless White Void from existence, so his erasure works on a layer above the informational

Which is again bullshit, because he didn't erase it. He filled it in. There's a difference

and he also would see the entirety of the show (including the void) as fiction to begin with

Now you're just making shit up. Just because Celestialsapiens are "dreaming" doesn't mean they view existence as a fiction outside of themselves when they have rules and systems for it.

SpaceBattles started as Space Civ vs Space Civ type stuff. It and ComicVine are considered the oldheads of the hobby.
ComicVine is where Respect Threads started to be more of a thing.
WhoWouldWin is just a reddit battleboard.
VSBW is where the whole anal retentive tiering happens. They have articles that take the form of a respect thread but generally with much less context and a lot more calcs.

they have abilities because they have abilities just like every other character, like how some series can have regular humans tussle with guys that can survive nukes
do you think the Bakiverse is strong because of some mystical made up power or something?

Alien X can do anything like Spiral Power can, including rewriting the story. There’s no limitation to what either can do, and the limitation to their uses in theory (which both overcame) was using it without blowing up the entire universe. Functionally not different.

I already addressed the AS part. His erasure is inferior to Alien X’s simply because it only works on an informational level, while Alien X can wipe away things beyond informational erasure.

Anon Babble for /dbs/ alone

Anon Babble no diffed every board.

…yes?

Got it. No displays of being thoughts. Post your source for that.

Just like Ben in the Alien X dimension with the two personalities is “there”, even though he’s canonically translated into a personality there. He’s not physical.

Actually, Doctor Paradox has walked in and pulled him out so it is a physical place

It doesn’t since you can just say their power systems are unique and aren’t generalized. But in this scenario you can say that Ben could then just copy his DNA since he doesn’t have the same type. If you say they have the same type, then he gets Spiral Power anyway. It’s a Catch-22.

Not really, that be like if we did Rebuild Shinji vs Pre-TS Simon. There is no Catch 22 because there’s the third option of Ben being a human yes but not one with Spiral Power since the only difference berth Ben 10 humans and Gurren Lagann humans is what the helixes do.

They’re both on the level of seeing another universe as fiction and being able to do anything they want to it as a writer can for a story. It’s just that Simon upscales this by absorbing this character, and Alien X by being the prime version of a Celestialsapien and just any arbitrary one being able to do this. They both upscale it.

Chadzmuth said it took a group of of the oldest ones so no. That’s Starbeard and a bunch being below TTGL.

No, everyone in Baki is strong because of in-human martial arts and physical training. It's non-sensical explaination, but it is an explaination that makes sense for the universe

Bugs Bunny doesn't have an explaination for how he does anything other than the fact he's Bugs Bunny and likely the main character of the short.

You’re stupid if you think “he could” is the same as “he did”. There’s a difference between what he could potentially do and what he could actually do, and Alien X canonically can just wipe everything we’ve seen in the show, which includes those things.

I’m not making anything up. All retcons are canonically because of the Celestialsapiens.

Even ignoring the other arguments you ignored, a decade when they both exist outside of time and Simon has no way of killing Ben who is immortal, is enough.

Anon Babble

I never said he erased the void

So Alien X can erase an informationless White Void from existence

and Alien X can erase the void those universe-erasers wiped the information-universe to.

Alien X can do anything like Spiral Power can, including rewriting the story.

Wrong. Alien X can’t rewrite the story, he can’t even restore the universe properly or revive the dead. Spiral Power can do all these things.

Superior to AS

Nope. Doesn’t have a single feat even close to AS in any regard. If NIA could resist being erased, then AS easily can at a far greater degree.

rt. His erasure is inferior to Alien X’s simply because it only works on an informational level, while Alien X can wipe away things beyond informational erasure.

You have literally no evidence of this, and everything you have been trying to make fit either contradicts what actually happened, or never happened at all

are benfags the biggest frauds of all time

Was it ever mentioned how Azmuth actually got the Celestialsapien DNA in the first place?

They always have been

Oh he "could" erase an empty void now, he just didn't want to, and filled it up with a new universe instead?

Again, you are making up feats to replace the feats he already has

Got it

What I noted was that your point was irrelevant.

Paradox has walked in and pulled him out

Paradox is already beyond time and space and exists in his own universe like Alien X does. This is like saying Anti-Spiral existing is an anti-feat for the Super Spiral Universe.

a third option

There isn’t. If Ben and Simon are both the same species, then either they have the same DNA or they don’t. If they do, their DNA can do whatever the other one can, if they don’t, then Ben can scan Simon. Saying “but they’re both humans” doesn’t change anything when one human genome is different from the other.

Ben rebooting the universe is seen as in the same light and also the reason why he was taken on trial in the first place. He was also capable of doing it.

Can and did are two different things, kwab.

he can’t rewrite the story or bring back the dead except for the times he did in canon

also spiral power can do all those things except for when they can’t, because if they do they blow up the universe

I mean he can since it’s in the verse whose show says he can wipe out everything in it. It’s basic inference.

didn't Sharty fail a raid against /dbs/ and then jobbed to a counter-raid by them?

Sharty took down Anon Babble which scales above every board

Paradox is already beyond time and space and exists in his own universe like Alien X does. This is like saying Anti-Spiral existing is an anti-feat for the Super Spiral Universe.

I thought you said Ben wasn’t physical in that except Paradox pulled him out.

If Ben and Simon are both the same species, then either they have the same DNA or they don’t. If they do, their DNA can do whatever the other one can, if they don’t, then Ben can scan Simon. Saying “but they’re both humans” doesn’t change anything when one human genome is different from the other.

So if Simon fights Yuji, now Yuji Spiral Power because they’re both human?

if they don’t, then Ben can scan Simon.

He already has human DNA, this one just responds differently

>he can’t rewrite the story or bring back the dead except for the times he did in canon

He literally can’t. The universe he restored are just copies of the original. All of his actual friends and family are fucking dead.

Sharty got raided by /funkg/ from Anon Babble once.

Anon Babble because they have guns

QRD on this? Is it in the archives?

Sharty TANKED that btw

Bugs Bunny doesn't have an explaination for how he does anything

yes he does, because he's a toon and in-universe toons can do that shit because they're unique, like Quirks

The difference is that Paradox is already a being like Alien X and isn’t necessarily bound by physical reality or even his alternate physical selves. If some random person could do this, then that would be valid.

The Yuji example wouldn’t work since you can just say Simon’s DNA is different from Yuji’s, so Yuji’s human DNA wouldn’t generalize to having Spiral Power. They’re both “human” but can have different humanoid genomes, because it’s fiction.

It’s just that if you admit that, then Ben scans Simon’s DNA and gains his capacity for Spiral Power.

All of his actual friends and family are fucking dead.

If you want to get into a philosophy discussion on whether recreating someone from nothing isn’t “them”, then you’re out of the purview of whatever we’re talking about. Easily translatable to Simon and Nia, not to mention it’s already said in Omniverse that erasing someone from existence doesn’t matter since everyone already exists in the Omniversal Force.

In the context of the episode the univese is already wiped out and left an empty void. Alien X filled in that voice with a new universe, future episodes and material never at all imply he could erase it even further, why he would even do so.

jobbed to /dbs/

jobbed to the zoomer night funkin general

that just seems like a chain reaction feat rather then a direct one since they've jobbed hard

HE COULDN'T STOP IT FROM BEING DESTROYED YOU FUCKING RETARD. THIS WAS EVEN DIRECTLY ADDRESSED IN BEN VS. HAL

jobbed to FNF

bro how LMAO

Spacebattles is an old ass 90s scifi + debate forum with rules that punishes bad faith argumentation, prefers you don't use other sites for evidence (do your own calcs, post feats, etc, which shuts down Vsbw retardation) and is probably the least fun-allowed battleboard in modern times but the most reasonable
Comicvine is a somewhat old comics forum that from what i've seen is completely retarded and filled with bad faith argumentation, retarded users half the time too
Vsbw is a wikia-derived retard farm that tried to turn battleboarding into science and is where most modern battleboarding revolves around for whatever reason
whowouldwin is a subreddit so it sucks
What you can gather from this is that spacebattles, once you find a thread that actually has a debate ongoing, is probably going to be more reasonable about things

No. Bugs can do what he does, because he's BUG FUCKING BUNNY. There's nothing unique about Bugs in-universe, he's just a rabbit. He's special, because he's the main character, and he knows that.

Bugs doesn't have any special quirks, as far as the universe is concerned, he's just another rabbit. Hence why Elmer hunts him, hence why Sam doesn't think he's a threat, and hence why it's funny in the first place

The trade-off with Spacebattles there is that some of the users can be complete lunatics sometimes, probably has the most egotistical users of any vs site somehow surpassing VSBW.

Except that White Void is cosmologically lower than the Omniverse (as implied by the Chronal-Randomization Barrier‘s existence) and Alien X can cosmology wipe that.
Ignoring how you can use this same logic against Simon with Nia, I don’t know how this is whatsoever translatable to whether Ben could wipe the Omniverse or not, or whether the Omniverse includes the spaces before individual space-times are created.

fucker just wanted to as the kids like to put it "aura farm"

Post Sharty not getting gaped by xitter tourists

On spacebattles, suggsverse would collapse into sub-wall level fodder because their verse does not follow coherent logic and thus is determined to be meaningless and infinitesmal whereas on VSBW they would have metrics that essentially rewards suggsverse statement faggotry and meaningless transcendence statements and thus can not feature things like SCP and Suggs because their whole thing is "They're FUARKING realer than REAL LIFE" and would be too powerful

It’s just that if you admit that, then Ben scans Simon’s DNA and gains his capacity for Spiral Power.

When has Ben been able to scan other humans with the same DNA but different properties

Could he turn into a Gamma Mutate or Soeed Force user

oh so you don't even understand anything from the series, got it

Hal dilating

AAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEE

I-I-I-I-I........

Does Homu win all her MUs?

BOOM. Donaroo.

kill yourself listroon

Gamma Mutate, probably. Speedforce User, no. Speedforce is like a metaphysical thing bound to your soul while DNA is more of a thing with Gamma Mutates.

If your DNA structure is different from Ben’s, then he can copy it. If the DNA structure in a fiction is the thing which determines whether a character can tap into a certain energy source, then Ben would get that too.

kill yourself listroon, but nice art

no longer has access to the Green Door

still gets told that he’ll never die no matter what

HULKBROS… THIS IS OUR MOMENT.

Well, maybe, but the moderators are very often reasonable enough to hear you out. I've used it on/off for ages in more than just the Vs Debate section so I know from experience that it often comes down to how you express yourself.
Interestingly they also shun using Anon Babble-derived expressions or type of posting so they are pretty good at upkeeping the "nerdy wall of text" kind of forum culture.
The Vs Debates are definitely more strict now than they were 10 years ago though, there are numerous fights that are kind of lulzworthy from back then, but you'd get slapped with a warning for making one now, meaning the really funny fights are mostly accidents.

Oh yeah, I forgot that Hulk still somehow remained immortal despite his Green Door being removed

If your DNA structure is different from Ben’s, then he can copy it. If the DNA structure in a fiction is the thing which determines whether a character can tap into a certain energy source, then Ben would get that too.

That ain’t how that works.

Benfags are so retarded.

is it green door good or just good good?

Why wouldn’t it? If the DNA structure acts as an “antenna” to whatever energy source exists, if you say that character can tap into that energy source while fighting Ben, he would be able to tap into it too.

What’s the evidence that the Green Door doesn’t exist, I thought Zeb Wells had that one Gamma Mutate come back in ASM after Immortal Hulk and he mentioned a green door

Vsbw would make 40k into hyperversal gods the moment they touch the warp
Spacebattles would do this forums.spacebattles.com/threads/robbie-rotten-lazytown-versus-angron-w40k.469562/

More than an ability, toon physics is essentially turning physics debates (newtons, joules, displaced material) kind of useless.

Because nowadays power scalers are obsessed with calcs, toon force is hated because they can't reliably chart them.

If the DNA structure in a fiction is the thing which determines whether a character can tap into a certain energy source, then Ben would get that too.

Then how come Ben couldn’t scan that turtle guy and get mana powers?

it still exists it just got closed

yes you can, they've done it on the show before

Tell me anon, what reason does Bugs have for anything he does in terms of power? Why his he special in-universe?

Except that White Void is cosmologically lower than the Omniverse (as implied by the Chronal-Randomization Barrier‘s existence) and Alien X can cosmology wipe that.

Anon, it's a fucking VOID, it's literally nothing. Of course it's lower on the cosmology scale, because it's nothing. And you STILL have zero evidence he can reduce it even further.

The Green Door definitively still exists, the current Timeless Power Man run has him using the Green Door in 616 and even meeting TOBA. Don't really know why.
I'm moreso talking about how some of the big posters get a hard-on for being right and having a lot of likes moreso than any other vs site. It's something you notice the longer you stay there, it's a symptom of it being an old nerd culture site. I'd say "still better than other VS sites" but it's basically just as annoying at its peak.

why his he

anyway because he's a toon and toons in that setting can do that shit because they're toons, like Kryptonians doing shit
the fact that other characters can also become the animator in the series shows that it's not even a special thing

Which is stupid. Because Spongebob pulling a string, and untangling the universe was never supposed to be a real feat for how strong he can actually be.

Just because they've done it doesn't mean is reliable.

Take into account Looney Tunes can often survive a planet wide explosion, then die by an explosion, they can somehow "resurrect" from whatever shit they died for like nobody's business, and sometimes they pull shit violating the space displacement rules.

Toon physics is about throwing away normal physics regularly.

this doesn't really work in Ben's favor because he's not going to immediately know how to use it, plus it leaves him vulnerable to Simon just ramming the core drill in him and leaving a big hole in his chest. and we're forgetting the teensy tiny little fact, that BEN DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING GUNMEN HE CAN PULL OUT OF THIN AIR AND FIGHT SIMON WITH.

Take into account Looney Tunes can often survive a planet wide explosion, then die by an explosion, they can somehow "resurrect" from whatever shit they died for like nobody's business, and sometimes they pull shit violating the space displacement rules.

WOW JUST LIKE COMIC BOOKS

It’s a higher space beyond space and time with another time axis if you want to be technical about it. It’s just that it lacks the information of the lower space. It would just be another element in the omniverse which could be wiped.
He can just manifest one with spiral power if he really needed to, or go Alien X and generate one. It’s not that hard.

the fact that other characters can also become the animator in the series shows that it's not even a special thing

Exactly. Because it's not special, but not even something unique, or something everyone in his universe can do. It's literally just because Bugs Bunny is Bugs Bunny, and it only happens when it's most funny, sometimes it even works against him
youtu.be/5WBg0xdNpxA?si=OINA2KFLXv8I1xMU

"Toon logic/force" is literally the only reason they can do anything, and it runs on what works as a joke for the moment.

Except comics resort to mcguffins for many of that shit and doesn't stretch their bodies like they're made of rubber unless you are plastic man or some other elasticity based superhero, nor they can't just shrug damage unless the powerset explicity states super resilience.

Superheroes are in theory limited by their powersets and their relatively realistic and grounded setting while toons work almost completely by narrative.

Man, are all Benfags this autistic? Now I’m not feeling so bad after Pedo Hal fraud checked him.

He can just manifest one with spiral power if he really needed to,

I just fucking said he's not going to immediately know how to use it

It would just be another element in the omniverse which could be wiped.

Anon, it already is wiped. It's literally nothing. What part of this aren't you understanding?

DB literally said:

I thought it was silly because Hulk is seen as immortal still even if it’s because the other Marvel writers just got the general gist and don’t understand the actual plot elements of Immortal and how it closed. The idea of “Hulk can’t be embraced by Madam Death” without the Green Door makes non sense at all.

but...he is.

So he just goes his one billion IQ alien and learns how to do it from first principles faster than some retarded kid could. Or he uses Alien X to make one.

It’s nothing but it’s something relative to something else that is bigger than the universe conceptually. It’s not that hard to understand either.

Simon did reach his max potential. you have to be delusional to not see that.

he's literally the potential man if he was

Actually, it’s said Simon can absorb other Spiral Warriors with the energy and add it to his own if he uses he Core Drill.

So he could just drain Ben of his Spiral Power and keep him as a necklace

He also recently immediately came back from the Hulk being suppressed while Banner was ripped apart and eaten alive the moment the Hulk was able to exist again, which would be a really good feat even for Immortal Hulk. There's no way to take that that isn't him just outright resurrecting from death. Even if DB decides not to give him the Green Door he probably has the same level of immortality and regen currently regardless.

It doesn't matter how big it is, because it's literally nothing. No shit its scope in infinite, because it streteches as long as existence. And again, you have no evidence Alien X can reduce it even further beyond nothing. All you said was how he filled in that nothing space, with something.

These are not the same feat

With? Spiral Power.

So Ben just learns how to use that and does it too (not to mention with his other power set allowing him to break out).

Nothing personal kid.

So Ben just learns how to use that

how?

Reminder that on spacebattles R > F only counts as a pocket dimension that scales horizontally in a cosmology and Verso's ending is canon because nobody is happy in Maelle's TROON clown show.

So Ben just learns how to use that and does it too (not to mention with his other power set allowing him to break out).

Who says he’s gonna be better than Avant Simon

Who's the most powerful telepath in fiction?

look at my 40k dude! he's so evil and COOL so he'd win! look at him swinging a hammer

how's that supposed to hurt robbie rotten?

kek

Like Simon did.

Him creating the universe after it was reduced to the void isn’t the same thing as him being a cosmology wiper, with the void being included in the cosmology (and there’s no such thing as “true nothing” either).

Bro Ben can totally do these things he’s never done before!

Just ignore how every time he’s gotten a new power/alien he had to learn how to use it…

Total benfag death.

Don't know why you responded to me. But I agree. All he did was fill in an empty space, he didn't "destroy" void even further than it already was.

Just because we didn't SEE him do it doesn't mean he CAN'T!

benpedo HBOC

Like Simon did.

with time and effort and years of experience? something ben lacks in this situation?

Can he just replace his entire body being destroyed? I know that was a big thing in Hulk vs Broly. Technically Banner’s flesh was still in their stomachs digesting.

Kill yourself listtroon.

Daily reminder that, canonically, the Looney Tunes characters are actors in-universe. This is consistently shown throughout the franchise, like in the short "You Ought to Be in Pictures" or the time Elmer Fudd literally tears up his contract with Warner Bros. because he’s tired of always losing. The same idea carries over into Looney Tunes: Back in Action, which also presents the characters as actors playing roles.

So when characters like Bugs Bunny or Elmer Fudd appear to take control of a cartoon, it’s likely with permission from the original director, they're stepping into a behind-the-scenes role. Take Duck Amuck, it starts with a medieval setting, which was probably the cartoon’s original plot. But Bugs changes it, just to fuck with Daffy. That’s why Daffy is so confused.

Of course, feats like Bugs Bunny surviving the moon exploding are still valid, since it’s established that Looney Tunes characters perform their own stunts. However, "meta" feats, like Bugs cutting the film strip, don’t really count as reality-warping. That’s not Bugs cutting reality itself; it's just him editing the ending of the cartoon he didn't like.

You left out dimensional manipulation

Anon Babble for taking real estate on every board, site, and in irl organisations.

Leader and Abomination both have feats of coming back from being atomized, Abomination's specifically happened the moment someone else possessed his atoms to give them a consciousness that made them instantly reform, so the Green Door should work similarly.

Mephisto loses to Trigon, but beats Neron and Lucifer Morningstar.

AZMUTH HELP ME FIND OUT WHAT SPIRAL POWER IS, QUICKLY! SOME GUY WITH A DRILL GOT MAD AT ME FOR THROWING A MILKSHAKE AT HIS DUMB ROBOT!

are benfags for real about this

But can Banner be conscious as atoms?

Eh...Based art list.

In the past no, but post Green Door he's aware of the Below Place and has conscience there, and we see that his Green Door always opens immediately, so walking through it would then apply his conscience to his atoms.

Pretty sure Hulk can astral project.

I'm pretty sure any logic you apply to the shorts like "they have quirks" is all up to headcanon unless you take the Tiny Toons continuity as canon where they go to an academy and study toon physics cause they're toons.

Fucking hell, why did you make me think of atoms. How many characters have identity down to the atomic level? If you took the Leader and removed a single atom from him and placed that atom in a pocket dimension, would that atom eventually become another Leader ex nihilo?

This is why Vs Battle Wiki’s regeneration system is stupid, since Hulk’s spirit just walking out of the Below Place replacing his body means that he has “Low Godly regeneration”, but you would need Outerversal range to even go to the Below Place to attack Hulk’s soul in order to kill him for good

So it would be harder to kill him than other characters with higher forms of regeneration, even if he doesn’t necessarily come back from a concept or whatever (or I guess you could do this by wanking statements about souls in Marvel).

happy pride month, schizo, now give me the kaijufag's discord

Stop replying to yourself you pathethic retard. Get a life already.

This matchup's fucking retarded.

Maybe they're waiting for Dormammu to get feats because no one likes Trigon.

no, ohnoschizo shits up multiple boards with his autism, and said he has the kaijufag's discord, but won't give it to me

Supermanbros…..

tiktok.com/@wolfs_den_shop/video/7507694106576014597

What's the matter DCfag? Afraid of taking another L?

Rock that killed Nightwing can solo your favorite street level character

You know all that because he's you.

Nothing funnier than redditors trying to argue "Bro Touhou is impossible to scale! It's too inconsistent for that!" As if the franchise is some kind of esoteric fever dream impossible to understand then they'll look at DC who is legit fucking inconsistent to the point of being incomprehensible to even the most dedicated comicfags (what do you mean everything is canon now?) and accept everything and claim DC is the strongest verse out there.

Adora should have fought Usagi.

nope, but i suspect you're him since you felt called out

Posting AIslop should be bannable offense

Not Leonardo or the other Ninja Turtles

Benfags see Kyle lose to Simon

immediately start acting uppity thinking their shitter is somehow top dog now despite being GL fodder

Pathetic

Death Metal guarantees Diana's win. I agree with that anon it's not a good matchup.

When has he done that?

Based on how souls in the Below Place work, that atom would do nothing on its own, but if the Leader's body in the main reality was erased he could then regenerate from the atom in that separate dimension. This sort of happens in Peter David's run.

Diana can literally go one on one with Superman with physical strength. Usagi's a frail 14 year old girl who cries as soon as she scrapes her knee.

Pretty sure he's got 60's stories where he just does astral projection with no explanation.

Shit is stupid because [literally just dark schneider]

New fag...

The real reason is that no one cares about Touhou

Someone is asking for a humbling

I thought the instance of the Leader coming back from atomization was the same as his body being destroyed in Immortal Hulk, but you’re talking about an instance in David’s run?

You can tell a Jeet made this because he's begging people to watch DC

Diana grabs Usagi Tsukino by the neck

barely touches her

Usagi's twig neck snaps

Diana is traumatized

Abomination's feat seems to suggest that his atoms had some kind of spiritual link and remembered the shape they were once in. When Tyrannus takes them over, the atoms reform back into Abomination's body with Abomination's mind inside and fighting for control.

Diana grabs Usagi by the neck

Her future self warps reality to atomize Diana before she has the chance

Usagi is traumatized

Comics... are fucking weird. I understand why people read runs and storylines specifically now.

Thrag was the strongest Viltrumite ever, and he killed Nolan.

Mark had to push him into the Sun to kill him.

If a tiny star is enough to kill any Viltrumite, they're actually in the lower end of the powerscale.

The bit in Immortal Hulk is actually referencing Peter David's run.

Spoken like someone who's never seen any Sailor Moon media and just goes by what power scalers say.

Not all Low-Godly regeneration is created equal, anon. Some versions are stronger than others. That said, and correct me if I’m wrong. But if Hulk’s soul is what recreates his physical body every time he dies, wouldn’t that leave him vulnerable to someone with good soul hax? For example, couldn’t someone just seal his soul in a box, erase it, or attack it directly while it’s still in the living world?

A lot of weird comics feats make sense in or aren't that strange with context, battleboarders are either just deliberately disingenuous about it or have to rapid-fire feats out like this when you need a specific example of something a character can do

That's rich coming from anyone in this thread

Someone tried doing this in the current run and Hulk just broke out. Part of his soul always exists in the Below Place.

y-you're illiterate j-just like me...

LOL
LMAO

What if it was a box MADE of Hulks?

projecting

classic

I would have said Phoenix since it’s the summation of all telepathic energy in the Marvel Multiverse, but Death Battle would apparently disagree (got mogged hy Raven)

ENTERRRRRRRRR

We don't describe the contents of our posts here, anon.

I fucking love Pocky and Rocky.

WHOOO?

I wish the new one would go on sale just once.

Oh wait that's Reimu

TITANS!!!!!!!!!!

who's the guy on the left?

yoko...

A major hottie

I think Hulk will win.

Hot Take: Tooru fodderizes Milo Murphy but gets fodderized by Makima

Has anyone noted the more grimdark and edgy and even "realistic" the setting is...the more fragile the characters are?

And in counter position, light hearted works often look downright powerful when scrutinized through a len?

Composite Godzilla vs Hulk is effectively just Ultima vs Hulk, there’s no use in considering the other versions of Godzilla since just saying “infinite dimensions” means Hulk claps all the other versions away automatically

And then you have to deal with an untranslated Japanese novel with the density of a math text book and hope it has something in it that makes Godzilla win, even though you can just look at it from a 30,000 foot angle and realize that if a group of time traveling scientists could beat him, Banner probably could too

I feel like Invincible as a setting has a huge issue created by Viltrumites being able to fly between galaxies in a week or so.
If they have an interaction and reaction speed that is even a .00000000000001% of the speed that Death Battle gave them, they would still be about a third the speed of light.
In human terms that would make a single punch from the fastest puncher (44mph or a single meter in 50 milliseconds) appear to take 21 minutes to complete.
Even if Nolan and Mark reduce their speed on Earth, they should never be surprised by any action their opponents take amongst Earthlings.
It also has the side effect of making their stamina and environmental resistances worse than an average human by comparison.

I remember seeing minor arguments about the subject when it comes to something like Invincible vs other capes. Mark coming down in a bloody mess every fight while Batman can shrug off being thrown through a building with a few bruises. That kind of stuff.

doesn't some of the gacha shit give him probability bullshit?

Would Death Battle be using Breaker of Worlds Hulk or Fractured Son Hulk? Because they've already made it pretty clear that nonstandard shit isn't off the table.

It's pretty much just as good if the embodiment of Death herself is just telling Hulk that he'll straight-up never die.

This actually happened btw

Why wouldn’t they used Fractured Son when he’s the current Hulk?

Tooru fodderizes Milo Murphy

Yes

gets fodderized by Makima

How? She gets assraped by calamities, which may be automatic and not exactly count as attacks since neither Tooru or WoU have control over them, thus bypassing her contract

Enter Reimu? Many would.

Is it beeg teedy Reimu?

Quick

Anon it's been years...

You know. I actually find it kinda cool that we have empirical evidence that Alien X can grow to the size of a universe. That's more than Sonicfags have.

And let's not ignore how many antifeats many comic book characters have compared to virtually any other media.

WoU's ability manipulates the flow of calamity but it follows an specific order, it can't just attack a bunch of people at the same time.
So either Makima suffers from Calamity while her minions eviscerate Tooru, or the Minions suffer from Calamity Giving Makima more time to prepare something to hit Tooru with.
Calamity gets stronger depending on your karmic retribution and how hard you pursue but since Makima can fight from kilometers away the order of attacks would inevitably end up fucked up (would calamity strike Makima first even if she is far away because she is preparing a ritual to smash Tooru, or would strike the hybrids and zombies first because they are physically closer to him?)
And it doesn't help that Devils in general can heal and come back to life after drinking blood so killing Makima with a calamity wouldn't end the fight.
The only thing is that Makima has no answer to spooky postmortem WoU attacking her after Tooru dies... Unless she ends the fight by mind controlling him or his corpse to recall the stand.

Be Death Battle

Already plan on putting Hulk vs Godzilla in one of your rewards for your Kickstarter tiers in hopes of getting the show's season fully funded

Funding secured

Plan on giving Hulk the 3 - 0 because you and your research goons have an inherent bias against Marvel

Read up on Immortal Hulk #50 where it's revealed that the Leader has shut down access to the Green Door for Hulk

"Hohohoho, thank you Ewing for making my job a lot easi-"

Thanos Vol. 6 comes out, published three years after Immortal Hulk #50 ended Ewing's run

The abstract personification of Death blatantly tells Hulk that he will never die

wtf

Latest Hulk run now has him breaking chains made out of the first iteration of Marvel's cosmology and shows him coming back to lifer after being killed multiple times in various ways

Hulk somehow still retains his immortality despite his access to the Green Door being revoked

Mfw the plan to turn Hulk and his verse into fodder tier gets ruined by Cantwell and Johnson because they completely disregarded the entire point of Ewing's Immortal Hulk and now there is no in-universe reason for Hulk being able to come back from dying anymore

benpedo yipping at sonic babbies

Sonic gets to move on to Goku. He doesn't have time for groomer LOSERS.

My entire tiering system was HUMILIATED and TRANSCENDED by a malicious shitposter on the SCP wikipedia in a way that spacebattles manages to strangle before it goes universal...

Yup yup, the SCP CHADation owns powerscaling

My FUARKING hero and his victims.

...are not in this picture

ducking Marvel

...izers.

SCP was literal fodder to WOD (outdated btw) and SRE even when it was on vsbw.

You say this but they could genuinely just write an article like this, bullshit an explanation away, and post it as it gets like, 14 upvotes, allowing it to evade deletion and Death Battle will look at this and count it as a feat.

victim...sizers?

Well, Hal Jordan is there

Yes, benpedo is esl.

NTA but even entertaining the idea Ben could omnitrix his way into spiral power I don't think that'd amount to much. His willpower is shit compared to someone like Simon

You're lucky I'm trapped in this outerversal level lego, Sonic, Simon, Hal, Superman, Goku and everyone else laughing.

The Scarlet King stomps your favorite verse.

His true form is Scarlet Demon, one of the 3 Supreme Inner Narrators in CN narrativistics model supreme archetype of the Final Boss behind the scene, ultimate villain and supreme multiversal antagonist tropes, manifestation of all negative emotions and malice in our world in Delusional Domain, whose projection can easily delete Unity — Mekhane’s true form — perfect God Logos - manifestation of the whole narrativistics system and narrative order, Supreme Inner Narrator who together with Yaldabaoth and SCP-2747's true form created the Final Frontier, the foundation for the whole SCP omniverse (which was created/projected here from Supreme Tree of Knowledge which was created by Brothers Death , who were created by He-Who-Made-Light and He-Who-Made-Dark, who were created by IS and IS NOT, who were created by High Elder Gods, who were created inside the mind of All-Mighty, the Final Frontier's only inhabitant), which is several times directly stated to be a type IV multiverse and contains all possible mathematical structures, and whose peer, mentioned above Yaldabaoth and 2747's true form, trivially reshaped its structure which anchored the whole Ultimate Multiverse and from which all narrative echelons and hyper-structures are merely projections, Supreme Tree of Knowledge, into his tongue for example.

Sorry but SCP-3812 just made him fiction, oops, SCP 3823 just made me fiction to-AAAACCCCCKKKK

Vsbattles: WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN

ben's return to death battle will end with him humilated by YugiCHADS

type IV multiverse

If any of you indulged in spacebattles you'd know that "transcending" this quite literally means nothing.
Which is why vsbattles jumped to composite hierarchies.

Wasn't the Scarlet King's whole idea that he's the difference between modernity and pre civilization? When did he ever become some lame shitty devil monster

That fucking crime solving Tupac scp that's implied to be more powerful than the scarlet fraud.

Chainscaling only makes future episodes predictable and people would eventually not watch because they don't want to see shows with a lack surprise factor.

Fuark..He maybe could defeat a fodder mage from WOD.

Reminder that in this episode Nega-Chin loses in the story, with Timmy saying that since the author makes it so that good always defeats evil, he would always lose

He then transcends the comic itself (literally flies out of it) and beats up his author

OUTERVERSAL.

If any of you indulged in spacebattles you'd know that "transcending" this quite literally means nothing.

What

AND HE STILL KEEPS LOSING

Saying that meta-fiction levels count as cosmology and that everyone else starts from the bottom layer in a match up is no different than Omnivastance and transcending fiction to IRL.

streamable.com/pgg32

^ he lost to Jimmy + Timmy btw

Jimmy is Outerversal. DexTARDS, kneel.

Type IV Multiverse Logically includes quite literally everything, to the extent that if I went and got Suggd Type V and Type VI he would have logically failed to describe anything that falls outside of it.
The only way to go "bigger" than it is to start metafagging.

Warriors in eastern fiction aren't like warriors in western fantasy. In western fantasy warriors are basically just normal humans who use swords while mages are basically super powered reality benders while in japan warriors are super human demi gods who can cut mountains or some shit while the mages are just guys who can shoot balls of fire

they finally use the Ben 10 cosmology wank on the show but not for Ben but so Dexter doesn't get stomped hard

Benfags picking a fight with Simon only to get BTFOd proves that Simon vs Kyle was never about them btw

can transcend fiction like it's nothing

jobs to maths

Space battles is when you want to do group fights like Star wars empire vs the covvies from halo or something

Spacebattles

They have tantrums over DBZ scaling, the fuck are you talking about?

Everyone does

I...Okay I walked into that, my KING.

Lionchads...our women kneel to black men...

hehehehehehehehehehe

Dexter vs Jimmy is a close matchup on the merit of their own series (without scaling to any other series), but once you realize that FoP scaling is canon it kind of isn’t fair anymore since Dexter’s crossovers aren’t

Still a fun matchup though

Because you're not actually reading about Western folklore
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland's_Breach
storywarren.com/king-arthur-and-the-giant-of-mont-saint-michel/
There are Western warriors who can cut mountains

DBZ scalers have tantrums in spacebattles

Fixed desu

Naw. There was a massive shithole over Raditz scaling, I renember how it even reached here.

VSBW

omniscient infallibile gods

everyone else

sub-average human retards

Was it about Brown Dwarf Star level Raditz?

AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE SCP AND SUGGSAMA DONT HURT ME

i could easily beat up a brown dwarf

Post anyone who isn’t a God of Destruction or above destroying a star.

Kek, canon

youtube.com/watch?v=W7jEiiT5RDo

Post that galaxy containing a brown dwarf.

Post your mother not containing a giant star.

Post your mother taking a brown dwarf.

Post your dad fucking a red supergiant.

AAAAAARRRGGHHH I STUBBED MY TOE YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS ROCK!!! I AM UNLEASHING MY DEMON BACK...

GRRAAAAGGGHHH I STUBBED IT AGAIN AARRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!

I can post myself fucking a black hole

Anyone can do that, I did it just last week.

Raditz, Raditz, Raditz. It was probably z-tards trying to get across the notion that Raditz can fart and blow up Saturn, when there's no evidence he can blow up Venus

Your girlfriend is that fat, huh?

Boco do you even have one?

Don't speak about your mother that way.

Fuck no.

How well could your favorite two FUARKING heroes work together and how dangerous would their duo BE?

Both are Goku victims.

kek

AAAIIIEEEEE SPIDERMAN-SAMA PLEASE USE YOUR SUPERIOR STRENGTH TO HELP ME WITH THIS...!!!

yeah I saw Goku vs Everyone and the Sailor Moon hentai

Goku can't even beat Superbitch and you think he can beat toonforce and magical girls

Puss in Boots and Mr. Incredible would probably lose to these two

Nah he gets ONE-SHOTTED with ease

western

It is kinda funny how z-tards gloated about Goku and Beerus maybe kinda endangering the universe, but then they realized endangering the universe is nothing new. So they took the extra leap and said "actually it was 3 universes" and now we're at "it was 3 universes, 1 of them was 2 times the universe and the other was 2 times that one"
Like Indians scaling their mythology

Kyle failed, huh? Psh, guess I have to do everything myself…

Yugioh 5D's is the third most viewed anime this season in japan

Yugioh wins without even trying

It's more funny after the newest Bleach anime did that feat better.

Post Goku destroying a universe without Beerus’s help.

You ask the impossible.

boy you're obsessed with Indians aren't you almost like you are one

Are we Boruchads in here.

I was thinking about Hanuman's hairs being as strong as x amount of magical elephants, themselves x times stronger than regular elephants
Stereotypes don't fall out of the sky, Rajesh

No.

Well... if you need anything I just want you to know that I'm here.

who the fuck are you talking about?

Don't worry, we won't.

I wish they focused more on street level and low stakes fights all these high tier reality fuckers just make the thread annoying

Apparently Jeets power scale Mythology? I guess DB mindbroke him. although to be fair I have seen claims of Goku being able to "destroy" an Infinite Universe because heaven and hell in UNI 7 are stated to be infinite which is admittedly kind of stupid.

Moved in otherworld where time does not exist

That’s not true, time, as a measurable concept, is still used in the Otherworld. Even if it were true, it wouldn’t matter. That alone doesn’t grant him inaccessible speed. Sailor Moon and Popeye, unironically, speed-blitz him.

Show me a character strong enough to lift Nicole's fat ass

wouldn't it be more likely for spics to wank him since Mexicans love Dragon Ball and usually when you see the wank it's in Spanish

Thanks, Raj.

You've got the world's foremost search engine at your disposal

I don't search up Indian shit

King Kong Bundy...

This

You're talking to a self-promoting jeet.

Yeah, like I said that anon is probably angry over Goku for some reason

Also when did Recoome warp Space-Time wasn't it Guldo who could only stop time?

Slump chainscaling

lel

Saar please redeem my religion, otherwise we it;s irrelevant... Hanuman is better monkey then that bloody bitch Gokek

Sun Tzu said to know your enemy.

Sun Tsu also said men are hot, you think I'll listen to a homosexual?

there are Pajeet mythology texts that say this warrior is equivalent to 100 of this lesser caste of warriors and these warriors are equivalent to 100 lesser warriors and so on for like 10 layers. powerscaling is a very common theme in Hinduism which is what anon was talking about. I don't know where this "woah woah woah bro I don't know eastern mysticism" outrage is coming from, like you're proud of being ignorant of things just because they're Indian. so you're proud you don't get an analogy

Say they make another army fight DB, what factions do you want?
Absurd shit like Eggman/Bowser, Scifi shit like a fleet battle or something kind of grounded like in Fantasy genres?

Na'vi vs Ewoks vs Apes

your lack of self-esteem is concerning

Sun Tsu also said men are hot,

wat

Historical armies

Gimme LoGH vs Star Wars or something. Though I thinl Star Wars fleet numbers and range would be way too low for an even fight. Maybe you'd need to search deeper.

psychic dinosauroid reptilians vs psychic alien reptilians from the Draco constellation vs interdimensional psychic reptilians vs the psychic reptilian archons created by Yaldabaoth

Yang or Reinhard vs Thrawn could be fun

I TRANSCEND fiction and SOLO IT

No, I TRANSCEND fiction and SOLO IT

WoD: The ILLUMINATI covering up NAZIs fighting THE EDGERUNNERS in HOLLOW-EARTH as a TYPE VII civilization fights LOVECRAFT SQUIDS FIVE FICTIONAL METAPHYSICAL LAYERS above them as the TECHNOCRACY drops PATAPHYSICAL SHITPOST DEPTH CHARGES onto them.

NO ONE FUCKING READS XEELEE OR KNOWS WHAT IT IS

Daleks

Care Bears vs Gummi Bears

It could, but I think DB even in the DBcast for Picard vs Thrawn noted that SW was outclassed in speed and engagement range. LoGH fights more similar in range to Star Trek and they use a thousand ships in every other battle.
I guess a more limited engagement could work but "space napoleonic" is pretty definitive of LoGH's style, especially in the OVA.

Yugioh

Manhunters vs Sentinels

what do these two have in common? this us such a random ass 1v1

Simon has an ass THAT fat and perky and plappable?!

YOKOOOOOOO

their fur is grey

That's pre-timeskip Simon Bejita...

How old was Simon then?

....he was 14 at the time

I can accept that Goku and Arale share the same continuity to some extent. But to say that Hakai scales to narrative and concept erasure, and so does Goku, is a reach.

Thumb shoulda been Dr Wily vs Tom Bombadil.

Alien X completely no-sold information erasure

In other words they were never affected by the attack and thus don't really show resistance to it or that they could come back from it.

K, b, c

Out of 10!

(in which case Ben would have it through scanning)

Spiral power is useless without the will to use it.

Yoko Littner…

Bejitabro...

Hal Jordan after getting hit with Pink Kryptonite…

A little on the old side if anything. But if he thinks he's straight then at least he doesn't have much experience with other men, which works out in your favor

Yoko please shut the fuck up

NTA, but if an attack had no effect on you, that literally shows you have a resistance to it. If someone tries to turn me into a toad and nothing happens, that shows I resisted the effect.

A little on the old side

Hal Jordan…

So he just goes his one billion IQ alien and learns how to do it

Not going to be a quick thought to do. Spiral power isn't something bound to logic anyway, not something he'll figure out with intellect alone.

Hulk does not scale to infinite dimensional anything

Ghost Rider vs Spawn had had GR be infinite dimensional, Hulk wouldn’t be any different

No I meant in terms of regeneration. If they weren't affected by a punch, it doesn't mean they'll heal from getting their arm torn off later.

Baxter would be ashamed of you for associating his work with 'Pataphysics

I used to think Goku was the strongest mother fucker in fiction but nowadays he feels like fodder to be honest

Hulk is literally powered by the one bellow all. He's much stronger than Ghost Rider.

No, not really. Stop lying. He only gets immortality and barelly anything else from him. He's still just a guy who clobbers you good. He's nowhere near close to Zarathos in power.

The one bellow all? Is that an airhorn?

Don't Celestialsapiens have low-godly regen, because that one Gladiator that was sucked in that black hole was destroyed by it. I think they regenerated with their mind/consciousness.

youtube.com/clip/UgkxfPrKiqkdHFLOgSDbu118DydaFeVL3eSZ

Meant for kissing.

ew. kissing is gay

Says you.

Keky

bruva, it's not different than frotting

But its Yoko, man. I'd kiss that for hours.

The recent First Firmament chain feat he got is absurd. Even just drops of the First Firmament in Aaron's Avengers could melt Cap's shield and reshape the multiverse. You pretty much have to call it an outlier for any version of Godzilla to have any hope of competing in power.

Move

When did this happen?