Tropes youre done with

This idea of them being friends came much later in the franchise and is a rip off of what happened in Go-Bots.
Seriously, Leader 1 and Cykill were best buds until Cykill felt slighted and defected. This happened way before Transformers did it, it wasn't even the G1 cartoon. The closed it happened was an already Deception Megs having a brief chat with Orion Pax and then later blowing up everything and injuring Pax.

The problem with saying "its too x-man now" is that Transformers in general has always been a sloppy franchise that applied common tropes to "robots are cool". Even higher tier media like Beast Wars has various episodes that are blatant rip offs of specific Trek stories.

I don't like that Megatron and Optimus started their factions now. It makes the whole conflict feel smaller. It's like how in Gundam The Origin, Char is behind literally everything, including the conception of Mineva.

Famously after killing Sentinel Prime, who Megatron then stole the entire fucking backstory of while they turned him into a cheap villain to push the “former friends” narrative. Just took all his good and history and gave it to the villain so you’d be more sympathetic to them

There’s a message in this…

That’s one thing the OG did great, Optimus wasn’t the guy who started the autobots, and the first Prime isn’t even the guy who was a gladiator who turned his life around and lead the rebellion that freed his world. Optimus had some pretty big shoes to fill himself when he stepped into the rebellion against the decepticons

IDW1 gets a lot of flack around here, and much of it is deserved, but the way they handled the Primes is not too unreasonable in my view.
The idea was that it was a proud and longstanding lineage, as presented in G1, but one which had recently been corrupted. Optimus reclaimed the title of Prime in the name of good.
IDW1 also had a neat take on unaffiliated Transformers. NAILs - non-aligned indigenous lifeforms.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea that Autobots and Decepticons are just made to be evil or not. Even if they have certain models which predispose them to side one way or the other, the fact that they have reflexive consciousness suggests that at least some of them would just opt-out of the war.

I'm talking about modern takes where the Autobots are like authoritatian leaders over oppressed poorfag Decepticons who rebel

again, the present day autobots ALSO rose up from that oppression.

They had Autobot privilege, sweatie!

IDW gets flack for hiring yaoi fangirls as writers. That alone is worth them suffering.
Also hiring some fag to write for GIJoe

female tf fans are a special kind of annoying, i think its because they feel particularly invasive

can you name any

I'm ok with Megatron having a sympathetic background. I don't think that makes him a lesser villain, and the original gladiator uprising origin made it clear that despite his initial ideals having the germ of good intention, he went power mad.
I get people's apprehension to because it seems like a road to redeeming Megatron, but in practice it rarely results as such. He's a villain in the Marvel comics the State Games origin came from. He's a villain in IDW, and even after trying to redeem himself is confronted with the weight of his actions(I will get seeing all this as a slap on the wrist compared to how bad he's meant to be)
Even TF One, which seems likely to end up the one single thing in it's universe, clearly makes out Megatron to be a monster for choosing to continue the cycle of violence despite him being a victim of it.
For what it's worth, I do listen to a right-wing comic writer's podcast and one thing he talked about when writing villains is that he doesn't try to write a villain as someone who wakes up in the morning thinking about how evil they can be for no reason(unless it's a character who's crazy). Most career criminals, corrupt dictators, and so on have a reason for their acts, even if it's largely selfish.
My problem with the NAILs is that they're relatively small and all were Cybertronian expats- which feels like it should be the opposite. most of Cybertron should be full of unaffiliated civilians if we consider the Autobots and Decepticons active combatants. It's a toy franchise, so civilians aren't really a thing in consideration, but the more you try to ground the franchise the harder it is to consider almost half of the entire race picking one side or another side

invasive

The second convention, 10 years into the franchise was organized by one of the most prominent fangirls on the online fandom, who designed the first convention exclusive toy.
Beast Wars namedrops a fangirl from Alt.Toy.Transformers, and that was 28 years ago.
And the fangirls back then were literally into the same shit fangirls are now...the Decepticons, and shipping them. This isn't a case of "yeah but the fangirls back then were BETTER"- no they were also into the gay shit and twee cuteness.

Decepticons being fighter/military robots

Wait a second, I just realized:
Decepticons were created as weapons of war
Deception is one of the fundamental pillars of warfare
Clever

Female Transformers fans 20 years ago were autistic nerds just like the males. Female Transformers fans today are "not like the other girls" snowflake e-girls who didn't actually grow up playing with the toys, but decided MCU was too basic for them to be into/attempt to control the fandom through social media

I don't think they had ten booths of blue haired hipster girls selling gay anime art at 90s TFcons

you need to get a job, dude

Female Transformers fans 20 years ago were autistic nerds just like the males. Female Transformers fans today

again, no. It's a big mistake to assume these things weren't there in some form in the past. There were absolutely "pick-me" girls who liked the attention of being one of the few girls in the fandom. There were plenty of autistic nerd girls too- but they still steered to the same thing fangirls today do. Even at least one who seems to have ended up trooning out.
And yes, they even had blue hair.
One of my first online experiences with transformers, in the era Hasbro was foolish enough to link to webrings on their official page, was stumbling on a TF yaoi roleplay page. That side of the fandom was a known thing to anyone more than a few days online by the late 90's.
Yes, there's more visible in higher densities now, but the whole fandom in general is also bigger after 2007 than it was before. In the 90's and 2000's, there was a single con a year, now there's multiple TFcons between Canada and the US a year. And likely plenty more fan gatherings and areas for fans to network.

you need to get a job, so you stop having opinions about fandom, fandom is lame, that's why i'm on Anon Babble defending people who make a living by being part of a fandom and post on social media all day about fandom

they can be in the fandom but, you need to get a life!

Fuck off tranny, nobody wants you here

I too realized everytime a self procclaimed girl Transformers fan says they were into it as kids they are trans lol. Like no shit, you were a boy.

No, Autobots are a combination of literal SS inspired goons working for the corrupt as fuck Senate and neoliberal xucks who want to keep the status quo

tomboys are a myth, like the Jersey Devil or Manitoba

That doesn't bug me as much as turning pre-established male characters into females.

Oh, JD is no myth.

Megatron and Optimus being former friends or like brothers has gotten old,

it makes their rivalry more interesting

Most tomboys aren't "i play with transformers", they're "i play soccer/basketball/football" and end up bulldykes

everyone out here showing their lack of socialization

it takes 2 seconds to find a girl who played with the transformers toys

That's a lie but okay. It wasn't very common, and still isn't, for girls to collect boys action figure lines. Hell if you really knew anything about most girls as much as you think you do, trans, you'd know most little girls grow out of like their own demo's stuff like dolls toys etc much earlier than boys, and move onto shit like boy crushes, makeup, fashion, popular music etc

all were Cybertronian expats- which feels like it should be the opposite. most of Cybertron should be full of unaffiliated civilians if we consider the Autobots and Decepticons active combatants.

They left Cybertron because of the war. Before the war started, most of the Transformers on Cybertron wouldn't be explicitly affiliated with either - then the war starts and they either become radicalized to one side or the other, leave, or die.

Most career criminals, corrupt dictators, and so on have a reason for their acts, even if it's largely selfish.

Yeah but that all depends on the type of character. Megatron is a warlord, he's supposed to revel in "evil". Even this is nuanced, because war and conquest isn't evil to a conqueror, only the conquered.

but you know why they steer away from that G1 type characterization right. megatron is a popular character, and that kind of mentality reminds them of nazis, and they can't have that with a popular character even if it's not their place to dictate what people like, they think it is their place

big sister is real and looks like this

I just think the idea that EVERYONE who didn't want to be affiliated just up and left(or died )is hard to buy.
I get why- toy franchise, based on one team vs the other, character designs are largely based on toys or expected to be made into toys, so making unaffiliated citizens goes against the point, and requires more budget than Hasbro is willing to spend for what they don't see a point to.

. Even this is nuanced, because war and conquest isn't evil to a conqueror, only the conquered.

Exactly, so why he revels in his actions he still sees his way as justified. The very first piece of Megatron characterization we have, before the show or even comic was out, is his motto being "Peace through Tyranny." It both shows him having a sweeping, organized goal and also harsh ways of reaching that goal.

They were oppressed and rose up even in G1, against the Quintessans.

It's different. G1 is basically Terminator, but the creators of the robots aren't humans, they're nasty squids, so we don't care that the robots win. It's not a blatant civil rights thing like X-Men became or the modern TF takes that ape it

t. megatron is a popular character, and that kind of mentality reminds them of nazis, and they can't have that with a popular character even if it's not their place to dictate what people like, they think it is their place

Thats stupid as shit anon, people were thinking of ways to make Megatron's mentality justified even before those icky bluehairs tookover the fandom whenever you think they did(interestingly around the time you were in your 20's and started feeling disenfranchised with society as a whole)
I see countless fanboys say Bay movie Megatron is justified because he's trying to save his race, and Optimus completely doomed it and betrayed his species. I know it's all fanboys because almost no women cares about those movies.
People steer away from G1 cartoon Megatron characterization because the show writers had no real interest in what Megatron's origin was, let alone what his greater goals were. He was just build to be the bad guy leader. The first sympathetic Megatron origin was in the fucking 80's during G1, in the comics.

hypothetical "blue haired feminist" living in your head rent free

in 2025

Grow up faggot

You don't need to justify it, your mindset is the problem lol.

G1 Megatron and movie Megatron are the same goalwise, and that goal is the same as other villains, like General Zod. The goal is to dominate other worlds for the Decepticon empire, because from Megs pov, only his own kind matter and anything weaker deserves to die.

You can say "that needs to be justified", but it literally is it's own justification. Might makes right, conquest, etc. These are real world ideas, our very nation was built on such ideas, in fact ALL major empires were.

woke liberal uses the term faggot to be edgy

Lol it's so cute when you do this, what's next, gonna use the nigger word to prove that you can be a big offensive boy even though we both know you don't like the word based on your stance?

G1 did it best

Megatron seems like a really novel guy promising great things for Cybertron

actually he's an evil dictator

Prime and his friends are rebuilt by Vector Prime into the leaders of the Autobot resistance

I've never cared for Megatron and Optimus as friends. Having them start out as enemies who become familiar with one another (still pitted against each other) feels more "earned" and a much rarer trope.

I just think the idea that EVERYONE who didn't want to be affiliated just up and left(or died )is hard to buy.

Theres also Marvel G1, where anyone that doesn't choose a side becomes a run down hobo fighting for scraps, so looked down even the Autobots will kill one without remorse.

.crying about how if you don't have some decade-old hypothetical strawman living in your head rent free 24/7 youre a liberal
Terminal 2010s brain. Talk to a normal person in the real world.

woke people dont exist

shut up faggot/trans/ethnic person, don't care about your opinion

I am getting such bad secondhand embarrassment for you dude. You're actually obsessed with decade-old strawman ideas of hypothetical "blue haired feminists" which people in the real world haven't thought about in years, all because you're discussing stuff made for kids.

snyder fanboy

shan't be reading.

which people in the real world haven't thought about in years,

nah old fuckers and dorks think about them all the time sadly.

And trannies and blacks still think about Trump/"nazis" all day. Nazis and racism literally don't exist.

Lol you see how this thread attracted a bunch of nu-TF faggot fans? My cousins is gay, I knew gay kids at school. Gay kids and effeminate boys in general didn't play with Transformers, G.I. Joe, Superhero toys, Hot Wheels, Micro Machines, etc etc

You know what they played with? Barbies, mom's makeup, Polly Pocket, the Pink Ranger you got by mistake and didn't want, etc

You don't need to justify it, your mindset is the problem lol.

It has nothing to do with what I think, the simple fact is that there's plenty of people who perceive Bay Megatron's goal as being for the greater good of the species(I myself don't bother to think of the Bay movies much at all)
It's simply an example that people will try to make reasoning for a villain, even people who aren't like the fangirls you don't like.

Here you go old feller
novabbs.com/interests/thread.php?group=alt.toys.transformers

A lot of modern fans didn't grow up with it. That's why you see so much love for shit that is the exact opposite of it and want for more like that. Some of the most beloved IDW stuff by it's audience is like, lacking in fighting, action, transforming, etc, and more full of SoL, soap opera drama, romance, etc

If I don't see it then it doesn't exist mentality

But that isn't making shit up, it's just the normal goal of Megatron. G1 Megatron isn't a random psycho with no goal, he's explicitly a warlord/conqueror, his initial goal in the series was to claim Earth as Decepticon territory after using all the recourses on Cybertron, it's the whole point of the G1 conflict, Autobots wanting to protect another species while the Decepticons want to subjugate their planet

while the Decepticons want to subjugate their planet

Or blow it up. Whichever.

I never said it was making shit up. It's just seeing his goals in a different, positive point of view compared to how it's meant to be seen from the point of view where the Autobots are the good guys.

The idea of Cybertronian civilians is kind of weird to me, like the thought of Transformers just living leisurely lives is an odd thought to me, even though I know they are presented as more humanlike than not, because they are robots and not organic life it's hard for me to imagine them living without purpose, like just lounging about enjoying shows or company etc, I feel like leisure is so nice to humans because rest feels nice to us, because we need rest, but robots don't. I feel like any robotic society no matter how sentient would still always be more goal oriented, whether it's a war at hand or simply building shit, creating new tech around the clock to upgrade itself, whatever

What is it with minorities always trying to prove they're the majority? Generalizing is a thing, and it's because it's true. You can generalize majorities and be correct.

It's like when that one black person out of fifty who grew up loving rock music gets assmad when someone says "black people don't like rock", and then get even more mad when you say "ok, most don't". It's true, and the anecdotal experience of a minority of said group doesn't change it no matter how much they wish they were the majority example

I mean you can do that, most people won't, but there are people who will. The point is, you don't need to reinvent who Megatron/The Decepticons are to make them more "sympathetic" or "relatable" but yet modern writers think they do. And to me as well, it's just boring and a boring take. I was of age in the 00s and was a kid in the 90s so I've had so much fucking X-Men through my life, I don't need Optimus and Megatron to be Prof X and Magneto, hell I'm sick of Prof X and Magneto already, my whole life I've been hearing their "hello old friend" speeches

It's not necessarily leisurely, they do have workers and have to maintain and built things.
The question becomes how you count these workers. Sure, if they're working on projects for or by a faction's territory, they would likely be considered as part of that faction by default, but does that mean they're combatants?
The way Hasbro would probably prefer to consider it, everyone is fuckin' packin heat though.
On that note,we do know they enjoy rest. They're robots but they've never been 1:1 our human conception of service robots. they enjoy treats, watch soap operas, and playing sports.

they enjoy treats, watch soap operas, and playing sports.

Don't forget Rattrap talks about going to titty bars on Cybertron in Beast Wars

Rattrap was based. Arcee is his Aunt.

Well, yeah that's true but you just kinda assume those bots are in the background somewhere unacknowledged by our pov, after all who wants a story about/action figure of the robot who tightens screws or cleans the floors instead of the guys with guns who the action revolves around?

One thing I'll credit 2019 IDW for is going back to basics with that with Megatron outright admitting he's full of shit and that the decepticons weren't freedom fighters but straight up terrorists looking to take over and conquer the universe. The only real downside was all the Exarchon shit and the war never leaving Cybertron like it should have.

Real life is like my japanese slice of life animes

That's how I know the jocks in high school weren't really my friends

Bait used to be believable.

I grew up in the 90s, there weren't quirky e-girls at school who were super duper into the gay romance in TF comics, because such shit didn't exist. As far as younger gens and TF fandom among girls go I really don't care because todays kids don't really have toys and are entirely informed by the internet

NTA but (You)s will not make you happy. Just go on youtube and start another right wing anti-woke grift channel and make money off of it. It's much more fulfilling than getting into arguments here I'll tell you that.

The only definition of "grifter" I know is the guy from Wildcats. Anyway why do lefties like a series about war, don't you all hate war and violence

Okay ChatGPT you can go away now.

idk why are you complaining about what lefties like or don't like unless you're secretly a leftie that feels the need to bait on Anon Babble to cope with the fact that you'll never be a woman.

Anyway why do lefties like a series about war, don't you all hate war and violence

Cause I'm also from the 90's and rightoids would call you a faggot queer for liking stories about robots and figures instead of sports and beer.

I didn't know any kids in elementary school who were drinking beer. Also didn't notice any "anti nerd" sentiment until Middle school. Just about the only thing I saw people get mocked for liking was Power Rangers which became "Potty Trainers" quickly after it was trendy to kids.

Idk cause gays and girls have been annoying to me in this fandom, not because they exist and I want to "le gatekeep hurrdurr", but because of their views and influence on the property, which is making it more girly and gay

Also didn't notice any "anti nerd" sentiment until Middle school.

I was still a Transformers fan in middle school.

I was too, at first. I started to hide my nerdshit in like 7th grade even if I still collected privately/discussed with other nerd friends, but after 6th grade I stopped wearing like Megatron button up shirts and Decepticon hats though cause I felt the peer pressure.

Then in high school, it was the mid 00s and 80s nostalgia was pretty trendy with the "alternative" crowd so I bought TF merch again at Hot Topic

I had no idea they even sold Megatron button ups in the 90s

Circa 2001 I guess but this is it, thought it was really rad

Thats a p cool shirt
But yeah, I'm older, right wingers were(and often still are) the kinds of people who would shit on you for liking interests outside the norm, and also trying to censor shit.
The right wing is more popular with younger fanboys these days, but there's still plenty of the right wing who judge the hobby, or want to censor entertainment. The people in the 80's and 90's didn't just up and die, they're still around for the most part.
Girls might be trying to gay up transformers, but that's preferable to calling me a sped or a ped for enjoying it.

Things change. The old idea of the right winger being the stuffy old thought police was true in the Bush era and prior, but things shifted post 00s. Once the left became the more powerful influence in America, the roles reversed, and now the thought police are common liberals

Moral of the story, nobody is better in power than anyone else, every single demographic or group is exactly the same regardless of what their beliefs or values are

The old idea of the right winger being the stuffy old thought police was true in the Bush era and prior, but things shifted post 00s.

Nah those people are still around too.

Sure but who really cares, I don't regularly interact with people over 50 unless they're my relatives

They still vote and have a say in things, so it's pertinent to my interests.

Well obviously we lie on different sides of that coin, so I don't care, but I also don't vote anyway. I don't really give a shit about politics or politicians it's all pro wrestling anyway, I just align with the right ever since like the 2010s because of said culture shift. I align with whichever side is pro free speech and pro peoples right to offend other people, which used to be the left fighting for things like heavy metal music and violent video games, but now is the left trying to tell me I can't say retard or that it's racist to not like rap