I know I'm a midwit but could someone explain Luthor's epiphany? Does it have any actual meaning beyond "Superman good"? How do you interpret it?
Superman
For anyone lacking context:
youtube.com
Basically Lex has Superman's powers and has this realization when achieving that heightened state of consciousness
the meaning just Superman good. You got it.
He basically realized this.
Morrison does this "cosmic awareness" schtick in multiple comics.
Upon getting the senses boosted to the point where he could feel everything, he can only recognized everything as one.
He's basically high off his rockers in a positive way as his consciousness encompasses the totality of being, from life to rocks to astronomic bodies, which puts him in a mental framework where he can no longer keep up being his asshole self as he can now trace his own chain of effects from star dust to the point where he would normally try to ruin somebody's life for sport.
thank's for the interpretation anon, I still think I'm too dumb to get this
I've seen people interpret his speech in two opposite ways: In the film he says that "everything's connected and that the fundamental forces are controlled by consciousness so they say: "Superman is good and protects life because without life there's no reality" but I've also seen the opposite interpretation where based on Lex saying "It's all a cruel joke, the universe doesn't care..." his realization is that even if it doesn't have meaning, Superman still chooses to do right and help.
Remember that one time Lex got ultimate cosmic power and the one condition to keep it was "don't do anything bad" and he immediately threw it away for one more swing at Superman?
Those are the same concept. It's basically this image. Humanity is all we've got because everything else is rocks and empty space devoid of meaning, but that void means that we can fill that space with meaning ourselves for the betterment of mankind if we allow ourselves to do so.
Superman is the way he is because it's the only way someone like him can be.
People have really REALLY missed the whole point of the Nietzsche thing.
If we're putting a moralic spin on it, then
He suddenly sees himself and everything as being interconnected in a very dense and intensive ways, which makes his former delusional conviction that him fucking with people's life for sport was proof of his strong, independent individualism utterly idiotic.
He's deep into the buddist arc where you can't fail to recognize that yours and other people's idiotic behaviour are just that and that its manifestation wasn't even under your total control either.
I can't help but feel that's the Reddiest response there is to this. Basically avoid the question entirely and say something basic like "yeah superman good heh" which I have to say IS correct
How would you know that taking a swing at the alien is supposed to be a bad thing though? The instructions weren't clear about that.
That's a real thing. Astronauts get it on a regular basis.
Yeah well I can't help but feel like you're a cunt too stupid to understand comic books if the question even needs to be asked.
Earth
it is blue
what the fuck are you all doing? What the fuck are you all doing?
you're not helping your cause with another shit response like that lmao
*tips fedora*
Because it's Lex fucking Luthor and you know damn well why he did it.
You'll understand if you ever see blue
I’ll see if I can take a swing at it.
Lex Luthor in ASSM is a insecure megalomaniacal egomaniac who cannot abide not being the smartest, bestest, most admired person alive. He sees Superman doing good for its own sake, which is incomprehensible to him. Therefore he must assume an ulterior motive that he can understand (softening humanity up for a takeover, proving his superiority over an inferior species while making them love him, savior complex, etc etc). Despite all this, though, Lex isn’t psychopathic or seriously deranged, he just can’t understand a non-selfcentric worldview.
However, once Lex gains Superman’s senses and sees just how fragile and absurdly valuable life is before the uncaring mechanisms of the universe, he suddenly understands that Superman does what he does out of a profound sense of love and empathy and that all his previous assumptions about him were dead wrong. Lex in ASSM was consistently shown/implied to fundamentally misunderstand Superman’s motives and, combined with his own ego, fabricated reasons to despise him. Once he saw that Superman really, truly is THAT good, he changes his tune.
Another (most likely retarded) question I have is does his speech have any actual real life basis? Or is it just a retarded comic writer spouting schizobabble? I mean is the idea of consciousness being a fundamental force far fetched? Has it been debunked?
It’s hard to be a cunt when you can’t pretend you’re the main character anymore.
It's based on self-reports of LSD and shroom trip experiences, I would assume. Religious highs are generally framed and shaped by religious doctrine.
This
Lex was selfish egomaniac
but then got Superman powers and could see /hear the whole world at once and realized he was being a jerk
What about Bar-El?
Bar-El had a small dick, there is no cure for that
I mean, he asks, out loud, explicitly, and gets told that, yes, he can have ultimate power if he doesn't use it to be petty and try to fuck over Superman. He decides, within seconds, "fuck it, killing Superman."
On some level you have to respect the commitment. That's taking it an art form.
God, I loved the Black Ring arc. That bit where Lex meets Death and realizes that none of his posturing means anything and that this is actually happening right now is perfect.
Lex's expression in that last panel is exactly why the comic medium exists. I can fucking FEEL that emotion.
By finally achieving godhood he realized just how pointless and petty his antics were in the grand scheme of things.
Do like the concept of consciousness being a thing bonds the universe together.
The universe is indifferent so we mustn't
if i remember correctly, lex's already started losing his powers at this point, right? so i interpret this as:
while lex is smarter than superman, superman's brain has a lot other processes going on inside of it, so this would be lex's human brain crashing down, trying to interpret how a super brain would work and getting overwhelmed.
also morrison consciousness shenanigans.
This is one of my favorite comic pages.
Love the fact that Lex just fucking knows what he's about to do. Even when presented with this chance, that look on his face he knows he just cannot fucking stop himself.
The niece is cute. Just saying.
What don't you get?
Lex Luthor lacked perspective. He was a petty man focused solely on his vendetta against Superman
Gaining Superman's powers gave him a similar kind of epiphany as people report having when they see earth from space. He's being struck by a sense of profound awe as the true scale of the universe is revealed to him viscerally as opposed to purely intellectually. It is one thing to know that we are small beings on a pale blue dot in an ocean of darkness, it's quite another to truly experience it.
Stinky hat
I mean is the idea of consciousness being a fundamental force far fetched? Has it been debunked?
"Consciousness" is a vague label we place on ourselves. We can't really define it or pinpoint it so the claim "consciousness is a fundamental force" at best is unfalsifiable and at worst literally has no meaning.
That said there doesn't seem to be any evidence whatsoever that consciousness impacts anything relating to the known fundamental forces (gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force). Some people also wrongly believe quantum physics are impacted by consciousness, but that's just people not getting that "observing" in quantum physics just means any kind of physical interaction and doesn't require literal HUMAN observation
Is this the worst thing Lex ever did?
what I find hard to understand is how he reaches this conclusion. Is it just Morrison talking out his ass? Or has the idea of consciousness being a fundamental force some thought put into it?
No.
Imagine you figured out how everything works. I mean, how everything REALLY works. Life, existence, you name it. Imagine not only knowing but really understanding how everything works. Imagine the sensation of nihilism combined with a bit of tabla rasa ('blank slate') as you realize that in the long run of things, nothing we do really matters. But, rather than give in to the hopelessness and despair like so many, why not just work to make things better for everyone. I mean, genuinely better for everyone's benefit. Imagine having this realization and being fully aware that you are in a position that you can actually make it happen.
Now this part is going to be difficult to grasp for a majority out there:
Imagine having this awareness and not being a self-centered asshole or elitist cunt who has to warp or distort the message to best serve yourself or your own personal agenda.
I'd venture so if you consider all of the potential he squandered on a petty vendetta.
It's not as directly harmful as like when he turned off the superpowers of all of those people he empowered in the new 52, for example, or when he put on that green and purple power armour and put a boot in someone's face, or when he fired someone.
It's more like the kind of implied and potential harm as when Batman doesn't snap the Joker's neck. Lex could've done better than snapped the Joker's neck: he could've made the Joker sane and good, forever and not temporarily. He could've done the same for all villains. He could improve the quality of life for everyone, everywhere. Warworld would be Funworld.
what I find hard to understand is how he reaches this conclusion
You know how Superman has all kinds of crazy vision? X-ray, telescope, microscope? He sees it. He sees the world on a sub atomic level. Honestly you'd think more shrinky heroes would be having these kinds of epiphanies but eh Grant Morrison.
Of all the powers, of all the adventures, of all the things that happen in the comics, the one thing people seem to have the hardest time understand is the simple fact that someone might just be genuinely nice.
Ignore the consciousness thing, it's just the overview effect like people said before.
Is consciousness a fundamental force
See
I'd venture so if you consider all of the potential he squandered on a petty vendetta.
I meant it from this point of view, that's what I was musing on.
No.
What do you think the worst thing he ever did was?
and don't say stole 40 cakes.
Lois didn't have this kind of moment when she was juiced up for a day, either.
What do you think the worst thing he ever did was?
Trading his baby daughter to Brainiac was pretty messed up
Trading his baby daughter to Brainiac was pretty messed up
See that's a good example too, since that one life is also a squandering of potential in the worst way.
Lois was pretty blown away by the experience all the same though. Lex was too busy trying to kill superman and burned through is faster. Lois was able to just have fun and love.