Is there any way 616 Spider-Man can be saved?

Is there anyway in the new few years that 616 Spidey can have a good run, or are we doomed to more status quo broke single Peter until another Marvel bankruptcy? Is there even a way to write around or undo the last decade of shit in a satisfying way?

Make it all part of a huge nightmare and have him still happily married to Mary Jane Watson?

Basically this. Since Mephisto has been fucking with heroes for the past several decades just have it finally lead up to a small event where his plans are exposed and his defeat "fixes" everything afterwards.

How would you speedrun retconning all the events that don't involve spidey in the Marvel Universe? Just have a few chapters showing Peter and MJ together in these events retroactively with the universe restored?

So the Newhart method, huh?

He showed us the way.

HUH P-PAUL SAMA??? Even after Zeb Wells run you're STILL Cucking me??? You're still FUCKING MJ while I have no one??? All my friends have ABANDONED me or are SHITTING on me despite YEARS of friendship!! ANND they ALL have kids that can learn and GROW while I'm stuck in the STATUS QUO??? WHAT, you're going to IMPREGNATE MJ to make up for your lost fake kids??? AND you'll make me WATCH!!! SIGN ME UP YABBA DABBA DOO I JUST HIT THE JACKPOT!!!

Have Doctor Strange figure out that Mephisto stole their marriage, have him tell Mary Jane and she chooses to have her memories restored, have a few issues of her not knowing what to do about it, if she should tell peter etc. Strange either ends up doing the same for Peter, or have MJ tells peter about the situation and Peter then seeks out Strange.

The comic then has a storyline where the two of them have to figure out where to go from here. They have all of these memories about being married, but those memories aren't the real world history. What do they do now? Do they instantly get married? do they take things slow? how do they explain things/hide things from those around them.

The concept of two people suddenly remembering that they had years of marriage that was stolen from them, that's now all came rushing back and uprooted their lives and all the drama that comes with that could make for a really interesting story, certainly something I've never really heard of before.

Get a life.

Of course. All you have to do is forget Peter Parker ever existed and accept Miles Morales as the one true Spider-Man. It’s that simple.

editoral here we plan ro erase miles morales from existence soon I take it this make you fans happy.

Bring back all of Peter’s old love interests, reveal that he’d actually gotten them all pregnant, and is now millions of dollars in debt from child support. He falls into alcoholism due to his crippling debt, before eventually taking killing himself, finally ridding the world of the spider menace.

Who

a multiversal refugee from a 2015 pointless crossover reboot event from marvel comics.

Ah, that sounds retarded, and Polish.

No. Too much damage has been done.

The only logical conclusion for his character, honestly.

Here's how they could fix Spider-Man
Step One: Address One More Day
They don't have to pair Peter and MJ back up but they NEED to justify the elephant in the room: that a catholic hero whose motiff is based around responsibility sold his marriage and his unborn child to the devil.
Ideally, One More Day should be resolved with some time travel shenanigans that lead to her having always existed + her currently being an adult and Spiderman's sidekick. This way you can call a Spider-Man + Spidergirl comic

Step Two: Stop shitting on Peter
Frankly, the shit he's went through in the last two decades is fucking insane. Selling his marriage and child to the devil, Doctor Octopus murdering him and then stealing his body and ruining his reputation, Paul cuckolding him, Peter working for Norman, Peter begging for mercy against literal D listers that he used to beat with ease... it's too much. Conflict is good. But your hero feeling pathetic and cursed is bad.

Step Three: Get rid of Paul
He adds nothing to the narrative. You don't want MJ in the narrative? Fine. Write her out or reduce her role to a character who cameos every few issues. But this nonsense of a literal OC humiliating and cuckolding Peter? It's too much and it adds nothing to the plot. It makes Peter look pathetic and it makes MJ look like a prop instead of a person.

I’ve been reading the Clone Saga story times the other kind anon’s been doing with the commentary from the one guy and it’s crazy how Spider-Man’s right back to where he was then, only this time the Clone Saga’s been extended to almost twenty years.

No it's not it's the most sane thing they did in years making Gwen a mutant really does make sense. if anything was retarded then that was the clone saga.

They brute forced it the first time I don't see why we can't just do it again. It's sloppy and bad but get a few years of good stories after wards and it won't matter.

It won't do any since good for two reasons. First MJ remembers the deal with Mephisto secondly she did leave Peter for Paul and of course she did fuck paul.

yeah and you can't even use it as a spring board for something cool like MC2.

Yeah I think you are right the hell with spider-man they should end it. Hell Spawn tends to make more sense then this crap.

just fire the editorial.
Tom Brevoort and Nick Lowe must go so Spiderman can be saved.

Yeah, Spencer was trying really hard to fix shit until editorial put the kibosh on it for some bizarre reason.

TOBA was mind controlling him and MJ during OMD because he's bad and hates good people

Mephisto's deal changed their behavior, so they've been basically lobotomized for the last two decades

Strange saves them from that curse for ASM #1000

TOAA marries them in that same issue

He tells them that MJ is pregnant, and that their daughter/son is destined to become a great hero (something that can't be changed or retconned)

There it is

Checked

The primary problem is the editorial, MAYBE their bosses. I'm surprised no one tried to ask Feige or Iger about any of this in the first place. If they don't do anything then it's a Marvel vs Sony issue. But I still think it's an editorial decision because there are some things being done that can't be explained by Marvel's deal with Sony. It's not like they had the same issue with Fox where Fox got a portion of merchandise rights.

What has been happening is Marvel was coasting on its 00s success for so long that they don't realize their way of things is not working as well as they used to

How would you speedrun retconning all the events that don't involve spidey in the Marvel Universe?

Timeline reboot to well before the 2000s, and then just reprint some of the 2000s Cosmic books and Norman/Dark Reign stuff so it stays canon. Reboot to immediately after all of the founding fathers of 60s Marvel had left at the absolute earliest, to after the Clone Saga and Onslaught at the absolute latest.

Anyone who pitches cuck stories that don't involve Norman getting someone pregnant is fired, anyone who pitches turning a character they didn't create into a gay is fired, anyone who pitches Spiderverse is fired.

Paul's gamble device is what started the chain of events that led to MJ entering his hell world. Everything that has happened is a result of Paul rolling for happiness yet each good thing coming at a cost.

I don't want to save 616, let it die. What's the point?

Straight Up? Go back to Avengers Disassembled. Save what worked and cut the bullshit.

Problem is that editorial would pull the 1984 doublethink strat of saying the marriage wasn't important to the 20 years of comics it influenced but say the past 20 years of ASM comics were important except they weren't (spencer is ok though). In order to pull off a trojan horse plan you'd say to them that you won't be erasing the past 20 years but the first issue will be like this where he and MJ wakes up and it's pre-OMD world and they are unfamiliar with these events and look older but not as old as they would be now, as old as they were in 2007. Assure editorial it is only for shock purposes and sales.
However, over the course of several issues in an arc have Peter slowly regain his pre-OMD memories as well as post-OMD memories and then he realizes now Mephisto is trying to set off OMD again and is trying to intrude on this world. All of the memories come back once Mephisto is defeated. Dr. Strange and TOBA could also be involved too to explain how Mephisto was able to brainwash Peter in the first place to take the deal kinda like here.

Response Part 2: Replying to which is myself
Don't know exactly what you mean but you could use Spidey to avert some of the events like Civil War 2 if he's able to have post-OMD memories and also avert stuff like Superior. He can't probably stop Secret Wars 2015 but he could let some people know and make it not as prolonged.
That way almost all of Slott's BND work and his run is erased by Peter being a functioning and intelligent adult.
It is deemed by TOBA, Tribunal, and TOAA that the deal was bullshit that shouldn't have happened. So basically stuff like Spider-Island, Superior, and Spider-Verse are changed, abridged or improve on.
These could separate arcs or simply gags that are done in the pages of a single issue (Superior would involve Peter not getting brainwashed and the Avengers stopping Ock easily while Clone Conspiracy/Spider-Island would be where Ben is resurrected alongside Kaine and are teamed-up). Maybe he also stops Knull from coming to Earth by informing Eddie and Flash of stuff. I would also retcon and say Knull gave symbiotes their weaknesses but only because that's how he saw them as: weapons. Symbiotes are far more unknown and mysterious and did not create them. Thus over time his influence crumbles and he isn't their king or god. Just so happened to be the most powerful host that instilled stuff on them that could be reverted.
I would like this but the fixing part should be only a couple double length issues while the development with MJ having a kid, being a longer thing.

I'm as big of a marriage enjoyer as the next guy, but just putting the marriage back isn't gonna fix things, there's a bunch of other shit you need to undo too while also fixing the issue of a bunch of Marvel staff wanting Peter to flounder forever

Restore marriage

Restore Peter's supporting cast and actually use them, this means going scorched earth on all the symbiotes those fuckers have picked up over the years

Give the Bugle some role in Peter's life, since that's where a good chunk of his supporting cast lives

Remove Spider-Verse as a concept

Restoring the marriage isn't an instant fix, but I think it's the first major olive branch marvel needs to offer.

Going back to the Clone Saga and why they decided the Time Loop resolution was retarded:

COSMIC

BEINGS

AND

TIME

TRAVEL

DO

NOT

BELONG

IN

SPIDER-MAN

You just pull a Hal Jordan and say someone poisoned Peter sometime around when he first joined the Avengers and the poison fucked with his brain and made him make terrible decisions (unmasking himself, other Slott-related OOC) and hallucinate (that he sold his marriage to the devil). Him and Mary Jane had broken up like they did in OMIT and the reason no one brought up that they had gotten divorced is because the only people Peter’s hung out with in the last twenty years are super heroes and they don’t give a shit

Wasn't Brevoort the one who said that originally?

I for one was talking about rebooting Marvel as a whole, not just Spider-Man, which makes your entire argument a mute point.

We're decades into everything being irredeemably awful, and holding on to the idea that we have to keep any of it because muh history, muh canon, muh continuity is just arguing to preserve slop that should never have been published.

Literally just needs a really good and solid run and people will move the fuck on.

rebooting Marvel as a whole

Rebooting has literally never worked and only causes more problems. These character’s histories, especially the Marvel characters, are their most important aspect. What’s Jean grey without the Phoenix saga or Spider-Man without The Night Gwen Stacy Died or Daredevil without the Elektra Saga or Born Again

just do those stories again

That’s retarded, no one’s going to do those stories better than the originals. All rebooting does is push the characters backwards when they need to be pushed forward.

I believe so, yes. But I also think Brevoort came up with the Time Loop solution to the Clone Saga so I dunno

It's worked multiple times with DC. Everyone was on board with post-crisis and it's when their comics were at the best. Flashpoint was a bad idea but that doesn't mean the idea at all is bad.

616 Spider-Man can be saved?

of course. picrel is the perfect example.

it’s worked multiple times with DC

It absolutely has not worked multiple times with DC and several franchises of theirs that used to be top sellers have been irreversibly fucked. Ignoring that DC rebooting wouldn’t have the same problems as Marvel since 99% of the iconic DC stuff is out of continuity.

You'd have to do a complete clean sweep of editorial and writers, replacing them with the kind of people that actually want to see Peter progress as a character.
Editorial is the real key here. There have been writers like Spencer that wanted to patch up all the holes in the book, but the editors want to keep it exactly how it is despite fans hating it all.

You're missing the point that it wouldn't be a reboot all the way back to day one, just a reboot that cuts out the last 25-30 years. Nothing of value at all would be lost for most characters, the material you're insisting is important is all from the 70s or 80s.

The comics industry talent pool being as bad as it is means a reboot wouldn't improve anything, but but that doesn't mean that the idea should never be done.

All rebooting does is push the characters backwards when they need to be pushed forward.

When we've been moving steadily forwards down into the abyss for decades, there comes a point where you have to say "enough" and reverse or completely change course.

Spider-Man: Minus One

Unironically this is the answer. Spider-Man was in a similar spot in the late 90s and had the stink of the Clone Saga/Chapter One until JMS took over and brought back the character’s luster. I think that’s what’s really fucked the character post-OMD is immediately after he was held hostage for ten years by a sub-par writer who spent more time online trolling fans about OMD, that was followed up by a run that spent several years teasing undoing OMD, then after that a run where MJ is cucking Peter. Now here we are almost 20 years later and fans haven’t had the opportunity to wash the stink of OMD out of their mouth and it’s still following the title like a storm cloud.

just a reboot that cuts out the last 25-30 years.

Then what’s the point, why not just not reference those stories and move forward? I think that’s a huge problem with the Big Two now, you get writers coming in who don’t like a particular story so they feel they have to undo it and all they end up doing is making things overly complicated and ridiculous (see Spencer and Sins Past)…I’m not saying I wouldn’t like to see some stories undone, namely the “Tony stark was actually adopted and his biologe parents are a SHIELD agent and some random singer whore” but I’d rather that just never be brought up again then have to endure a story “fixing” it. Just move. Fucking. Forward.

It's worked multiple times with DC.

DC only REALLY rebooted twice and one was a catastrophic failure and the other is still hotly debated.

Isn’t that how spider-man ended up how he is now, a higher-up said “I don’t like how spider-man’s been for the last 25 years so I’m going to undo it”?

It's honestly a really shitty situation. I want to make the argument that if we just reset everything now we'd be ignoring decades of continuity but honestly what actually has happened in the past two decades. That actually matters. You look at the pre OMD and you have the introduction of countless beloved characters and relationship development between all them. You had the deaths of Gwen Stacy and Jean DeWolfe. You had the marriage. You had Spider-man forming friendships with the greater marvel universe. We just read in the PAD story time seeing Spidey and Daredevil learn each other's identities which post OMD still hasn't been undone. Certainly not every story was a mile stone but even the more episodic stuff had a real air of sincerity and genuineness to it as far as the general world building has been. The last couple decades have all been a blur where they were terrified to let anything matter.

kino

That just means they set the precedent that this can be done. There's no moral high ground in keeping crap that ruined characters as canon. Even if you just reset Spider-Man alone back to just before OMD, I can't believe there's anything since that anyone would genuinely miss.

I mean that's genuinely where I'm at. What actually happened of value? No, Superior, Parker industries or whatever crap reddit will try to tell you was important but was swiftly axed and only made problems doesn't count.