BNW flops critically and commercially

Normies liked Age of Ultron, I don't buy they grew standards all of a sudden.

but the tracking for Superman suggests it's going to be a hit
I expect Jurassic World to be the biggest movie worldwide and Superman the biggest in the US

I trust my gut over marketers.
Not saying I can't be wrong, but market research may as well be ran by monkey's throwing darts at a number board.

And once again, the curse strikes. The F4 will never ever have a good live action movie.

but the tracking for Superman suggests it's going to be a hit

So did Joker 2 Faux Deuce

The Old Ones are thusly appeased.

Once again in 12 more years. Upon a red moon a new terrible live action Fantastic Four movie will be filmed. And again they will dream.

The capeshit era of movies is over.

It's still going to do better than SAARperman. Fucking no one cares about that movie.

Can anyone that reads FF explain what about it is seemingly unfilmable? I get why something like Watchmen is but why does FF keep fumbling?

what about it is seemingly unfilmable?

In my opinion, the characters except for The Thing are lame and uninteresting.

the fucking 120 second wait appearing in every thread

And so is this.

Keep coping.

I feel like the majority of a production staff doesn't actually look a the source material for more than five minutes.

So if the only thing you know about a superhero is the most basic and easily accessible information about them then characters like Ironman are fine to make a movie about. He's a smart guy, makes super suits, kind of a dickhead. Perfect.

But what do you, this strawman production crew I'm making up, know about Fantastic Four? You've got strechy married to invisible girl and peppy fire guy and sad rock guy. Now make a movie, dickhead. Is that movie going to turn out well? Especially considering how easy it evidently is to butcher The Thing and Mr. Fantastic's appearances in liveaction.

June:
F1
M3GAN 2.0
How to Train Your Dragon
Elio
28 Years Later

July:
Jurassic World Rebirth
Superman
Smurfs
I Know What You Did Last Summer
The Fantastic Four: First Steps

Fantastic four is being released the last one of all of these. It will be a comercial failure. Dinos and smurfs are winning makr my words.

My bet is 28 Years Later.
Cheap enough it doesn't need to make gangbusters like other blockbusters whilst audiences having some nostalgia for the series.

One new property in ten movies

We're so fucking cooked.

And it's fucking Elio

Very.

>what about it is seemingly unfilmable?

Can anyone that reads FF explain what about it is seemingly unfilmable?

It's pretty simple: the FF, or at least the Lee/Kirby era of it, is about unbridled creativity, and big hollywood movies are about formula

28 Years Later

Followed by 28 Centuries Later, of course. And then 28 Millennia Later.

FF is venerated by creatives but has always been a tough sell to the general public. Mego FF figures were the only ones still around collecting dust in toy stores into the 90s. Doctor Doom was the way in for the general public and not putting him front and center for the marketing of this movie was idiotic. So was casting these actors.

I have a theory that nobody can translate what they represent.
The Fantastic Four rooted in sci-fi the same way Batman is rooted in detective and horror genres.
Look at the FF's villains, they reek of low-budget flicks. Evil scientists, aliens, monsters.
Shit, you can't convince me that Mole Man and Baxter Building are not influenced by
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mole_People
The comics usually take the pulp science elements and mix them with a superhero story's adventure to some great results.
Movies? Not so much.
Both Tim Story and Trank heavily neglected the adventure part and their science parts are not very interesting either, so the movies just end up bland at best.
There's also a matter that the stories like these are best when they take themselves somewhat seriously. I'm not claiming to be able to see into the future, but with MCU's track record I'm not holding my breath.
Basically, you'd need a director who enjoyed shit like Flash Gordon as a kid to understand the appeal of FF and translate it to the screen.
And this

My favourite was 28 seconds later.

"Looks like it's gonna rain."

"Oh there it is already."

Fin

In my opinion, the characters except for The Thing are lame and uninteresting.

That's kind of the problem. All the member are fine when split off doing something else. The Thing frankly deserves a solo movie, and Reed in the Illuminati and Johnny doing a team up are also draws, and if Rivals is any indication if you could let Sue be sexy she'd be a draw as well. The problem is they already blew their load with Reed jobbing to Wanda and Johnny being flayed alive in Deadpool, and Sue can't show anything because *hiss* sexism.

Maybe it's a matter of how tragic the character is. Batman is a billionaire but lost his parents and suffers a lot in his stories: the FF are rich, famous and a happy family.

Nobody cares about "muh tragic Batman"
Batman is the ultimate self-insert fantasy.

Ben and their villains provide the tragic element to their stories typically. Which is why Doom is much better with them when he's actually human and not just being jerked off for the sake of doomfags.

I Know What You Did Last Summer

Tell me your local theater is owned by a guy who has an affinity for the horror movies his youth.

It was a product of its time and not easy to update. sequart.org/magazine/2034/against-silver-age-marvel-the-cult-of-stan-lee-and-fantastic-four-annual-1-for-comic-books-as-literary-art/

Fantastic Four #1 would never be published today. And not because it’s so different, or so fun. Because it’s so stupid. A scientist for little reason kidnaps a space plane and get himself and his crew mutated on the spot by cosmic rays — then battles an army of underground monsters. This is more than camp, which suggests a bit more consciousness, a bit more cleverness. Its best sequences are those involving New York as setting, involving interactions with normal people — such as Invisible Woman holding a dollar bill for a taxicab driver. But this stuff is just plain bad.

I imagine that the creators of these comics actually did a good deal of laughing at their fans. You have to imagine so, unless you picture them like Ed Wood — idiots who take themselves far too seriously, admirable for their determination to make fictions even if they lack almost any ability. I mean, these guys got letters from people who asked how one ridiculous device or another worked — or what Spider-Man did in his spare time. From kids, really. And I suppose, as writing for kids, Silver Age Marvel wasn’t so bad. But, for goodness’s sake, you grow out of it.

And Marvel responded with pages explaining devices or powers, responding in their letter columns with explanations about continuity errors, how each and every goof could be rationally explained. Except you’ll notice that those explanations weren’t incorporated into the comics. The creators didn’t care. They didn’t take it seriously.

How else do you explain Stan Lee screwing up the names of his protagonists?

This movie was just mis-step after intentional mis-step. Reed "Juan Sanchez" Richards was the first obvious issue.

Fantastic Four is in the same ballpark as Doctor Who. And I mean GOOD Doctor Who.
Not modern post-revival crap. Ahem FUCK RTD FUCK MOFFAT FUCK CHINBALLS AND WHOEVER ELSE I'M FORGETTING
It's stupid, childish in many ways and makes zero sense but it wears that stupidity on its sleeve and makes it engaging.

FF is comprised of two key elements: family dynamics and pulpy sci-fi adventures. Hollywood apparently can't produce a script combining both elements and so one tends to be neglected, losing the soul of the book.
Also, and I say this as a diehard FF fan: they're corny. They're a group who never abandoned their space age roots, and let's be frank, more people feel attracted to the "cool" factor of characters like Punisher and Wolverine than something that reminds them of their own family.
I love the concept, but I get why it's a tough sell to general audiences.

This.
FF works more in the lane of Doctor Who or Star Trek than standard superhero fare, and the niche for pulp sci-fi is far smaller than a full leaning action film.

the FF are rich, famous and a happy family.

one of the things that attracted people to the book initially was that they specifically *weren't* a happy family, though - there was a lot of bickering, melodrama, etc

Modern Hollywood is too irony-poisoned for proper sci-fi pulp.
If they tried, chances are they'd be poking fun at how stupid it is every second. Even though the stupidity of pulp is part of the charm and it's better when everybody just accepts it.

The Simpsons was considered edgy once upon a time for having a son that didn't listen to his father and didn't care much for school.

What was dramatic then is standerd now.

I'd say it was more for the sense of realism and familiarity, compared to other superhero titles. They bicker among themselves and have troubles with each other, but in the end their mutual love gave stability and a general framework to follow.

Yeah, I hope the film, however it ends up being, at the very least doesn't look with shame at the source material. The MCU, despite hailing itself as being proud of it's roots, still isn't confident enough to let it play straight, and you get shit like making fun of Dr. Octopus' name in NWH (when a film from 20 years prior disn't have a problem with it).

They deliberately sabotage every movie to feed on the fans' rage and frustration.

WASPs are not allowed to be depicted in media anymore. Same w/ redheads.

Age of Ultron was better than whatever comes out now

'00s duology: ALMOST right approach but didn't fully embrace the identity of the source material

2015: Wrong concept from the get-go and no one involved truly cared about the characters

2025: Post-Endgame MCU

What's frustrating about AoU is that it's the only movie in the tetralogy that truly feels like an Avengers film in full, so it's specially bad that it sucks. The first one was getting them together and IW and Endgame were more MCU crossovers than anything else.
They took the wrong approach into having the Avengers films be these mega events instead of stories focused on the titular team. Post SW MCU should try to make an Avengers film like AoU again, having them fight the Masters of Evil or some other threat rather than reserve it for the saga's end.

I think it's about as bad to be frank.

Not a movie but 2005 videogame was the right approach. At least when it wasn't bogged down by being a movie adaptation.
When it was about fighting Diablo in Mexico, stopping Night in the Museum perpetrated by Puppet Master or fighting Annihilus in NOT-Negative Zone it was a 10/10 FF adaptation.
When it was trying to adapt the movie parts, it didn't suck but was nowhere near as exciting.

I've heard good things sbout it albeit never dug to deep into it. Glad to hear at least one version got it right.

Shills gonna shill.

Avengers are created

Avengers do a couple of missions then disband because muh CIVIL WAR

because of course Feige has no taste and loves 2000s slop

Avengers are finished

Not a great run

I doubt Superman will actively act like it hates the title character and his fans.

Not exactly rich either.

And even the FF have landlord problems.

The problem with doing the Masters of Evil (or any kind of villain team up) is the tendency for superhero movies to just kill the villains off.

Ok but there's the thing

I was kinda impressed by TASM1 keeping Lizard alive and cured but then TASM2 did nothing with it

God I hope so.

The second movie kept Harry alive too but then the movie thankfully bombed and that was the end of that.

We're never going to get a Thing vs Hulk battle in live action, are we

nope

It's simple, really; every aspect of it contradicts the other.

it's a Sci-Fi property

Great, then lean onto the Star Wars, Star Trek type of Space Opera. But they can't because

it's about la famiglia

Which becomes a problem when the "family" isn't really one. It's dad and mum and then the retarded brother stuck in arrested development, plus the dad's college buddy. The kids come later but you can't have them there from the get-go. So it ends up less like a real family with an all-ages appeal and rather a sitcom setup that appeals only to Americans with fucked up familial settings and a focus on "found family". So you're not grabbing either families around the world nor the average joe who prefers something cooler.

lame powers, names and a limited cast

But, you might say, the X-Men are a sort of found family too. Yes, but they're a much larger team with rotating members, different costumes, a wide array of codenames, and much better powers. "Rock guy" and "fire guy" are something from an old 70s/80s cartoon with limited animation. You can bring in a filler member for a while, but it'll always have to revert back to the 4.

Basically everything works against it in a modern setting. It's a relic with very specific limitations that cannot change, while also not being timeless. Superman can be reinterpreted or played straight, and it works because he represents something, even though he might be equally hokey. FF just can't work as is.

The solution is simple; make it a clear Sci-Fi movie that's about exploring various settings, and focus on either the FF as hot young scientists, or as an established family, with the kids, Nathaniel, and so on from the get-go. Widen the cast and make it X-Like. The sitcom aspect should be erased and the focus should be on sci-fi exploration and superhero action, with a clear family as the secondary core.

But they didn't do that, they also grabbed a subpar cast, and that's that.

you're making problems up, none of that is contradictory

focus on either the FF as hot young scientists

totally fucks with the dynamics of the group

M3gan is getting a sequel?
Nice, I kinda wanted a sci-fi Chuky to happen since forever.

Yeah Ultimate FF tried that and nobody cares about it. Ultimate Reed becoming the Maker was the only interesting thing about them.

All of those solutions just dilude the core concept

F4 will still outgross Supershit

Superman will make more money simply because he's the icon of American Caped Heroes. He will always be more famous that than the Fantastic Bore. Fantastic Four have always had this problem of being boring. Seriously they are so much so that Doom became a villain for Spider-Man during the cartoon Spider-Man and his amazing friends. What does that tell you? That the actual heroes who fight Doom are unremarkable.

But Fantastic Four failing is nothing new the REAL test for Disney is whenever that new X-Men movie ends up failing. Especially if they are race swapping either Xavier or Magneto. And if they hire that ugly bitch Eviro to be Storm, hell making any of the female characters dumpy and mediocre looking is reason enough to never watch that trash.

You're right about most things. But Doomsday can work without buildup. As much as niggas here dick ride Hickman, his Avengers run had fuck all to do with Secret Wars. His Avengers run was about Cap vs Iron Man.

Seriously they are so much so that Doom became a villain for Spider-Man during the cartoon Spider-Man and his amazing friends. What does that tell you? That the actual heroes who fight Doom are unremarkable.

Plenty of non-Spidey villains appeared on that show.

They didn't steal him, Marvel sold him. As long as they keep pumping out movies and shows, he's in Sony's clutches, and I can't see them giving him away since he's their biggest asset in the cinematic sphere. Yeah the villains spin-offs bombed but every Holland Spidey appareance makes like a billion, and the Spider-Verse movies (regardless of their opinion around here) have been succesful both critically and financially. They're not giving him up.

I mean they've been machine gunning flops for awhile now, they've had like what, all of 4 movies in the past decade almost that legitimately broke even or profited under the number massaging? Even the dregs of the blackrock money and the disney warchest have to be running out by now between that, merch sales being lower than the norm, and the parks struggling.

They fucked up Star Wars so badly that Bamco felt secure pushing Gundam in the west again, FFS.

Jurassic World will do 1.2 billion
Superman will do 850M
F4 will do 600M

Tbh the only problems with AoU objectively is the material involving Vision who's just completely fucking uninteresting. It's easily Wanda's best movie for example because she isn't insufferably fucking dull in that one and as a 2 bit villain goon works better than what they did later. The biggest mistake is pointlessly killing Ultron off at the end for zero fucking benefit when he was easily one of the best villains they had.

Normalfags mainly pick up on the UItron thing I think though because the tumblfandom that dominates most modern normalfag discussion is actively hostile to "This female character is dogshit because they gave her depth she didn't benefit from" or the idea of actually hating any of the hero characters outside of artificially manufactured debates like Civil Slop where corporate preapproved it in the media.

They seem to be instead realizing that this didn't actually work as a horror film fucking at all since too many people wanted to fantasize about fucking the robot-I mean because it'd get unbelievably fucking stale almost immediately outside of that hyperspecific scenario or close enough and are IIRC making this one more of an action horror movie.

Which objectively is the right choice. M3GAN doesn't reach the same level as Alien did, but the comparison structurally stands, they've managed to make Alien work as pure horror after the first one all of twice ever, and that's including a videogame, while all the most beloved entries other than the OG are action-horror scifi flicks. If you make your premise too specific and the monster too cool/interesting, it's better to make a more graceful changeover by embracing the change IMHO.

My local AMC was packed Friday evening as I was leaving after watching a late afternoon matinee of Tbolts - by myself since no one else I knew wanted to see it. There were five people in the theater, including me. Even Friendship had more people in it, for the show that started right before this matinee and the people buying tickets for the 7 pm showing. Final, Lilo, MI, all the other movies showing in this 16 screener had more interest than TBolts.

For all that OP and a certain number of you screech about Pascal, he's the biggest draw to F4 but he's not a big BO star and like pretty much most of the major cast, he's a streaming tv eceleb and that's not going to make people pay $10-16 to sit their butts in a theater - not when their are definitely more interesting movies.

You're in your deepest delusion if you think f4 will outgross the Superman movie. That will only happen with bad WOM.

I'm not watching any of this slop. Sorry jews.

NTA but I think that's the argument being made, that the FF's core identity is strong a product of its time and place of origin and is specific in a way that makes it tricky to make into a big blockbuster film while being accurate to itself.

and much better powers

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure, cause mainstays of X-Men like Cyclops, Logan, Storm and Jean all have such a cool powers. Wow, he shoots lasers and that's it. Wow, she can read minds. Wow, he has claws. Great powers, mate.

Probably

Good

Fine

Why they cast a random Mexican as Mr fantastic? Isn’t reed super milquetoast white?

If they could've used Spider-Man like that they would have. Sadly this was when Sony stupidly tried to build their own cinematic universe and briefly snatched away spidey from the MCU. They definitely could've used Dr Strange though, baffling they didn't.

Jurassic World Rebirth is almost certainly gonna take a large bite out of Superman's Box Office.

Marvel and DC would become far more selective in what they'd greenlight that's for sure.

The best one remains the Unreleased One it seems.

Ben, the best and most popular F4 member, barely does anything in the movie

what the actual fuck were they thinking?

Sue

looks like she's Gen-X

Why are they trying to make the girls look so old?
I miss the 00s F4 movies.

So did the Flash.

Say what you will about the Roger Corman FF but the cast and crew did take the source material seriously and did their homework.

It's both funny and sad that the movie made solely to keep the movie rights encapsulated what the FF represents the best.

The Thing is the one member none of the film adaptations have screwed up.

I really think Jurassic World Rebirth is going to be a The Last Knight situation where the surprising amount of money and goodwill the trilogy made implodes and the audience doesn't care anymore.
I think it's going to be a better movie than the last two, but the cast of the last trilogy really carried it and I can't see Scarlett Johnasson being as big a draw to an audience of boys who want a male hero like Pratt was.
This is framed as more of a horror/suspense movie than the last trilogy being adventure movies with a bunch of nostalgia callbacks.

What's the point? It's impossible for Marvel to make a better superhero-family movie than The Incredibles anyway.

if comics have to be made into movies they should just be animated. the writing wouldn't be any better but at least there'd be a chance for vaguely interesting visuals

The Roger Corman FF did sincerely try to do that.
Superman in Live Action Movies minus the Snyderverse is also a corny character.

It's even smaller after Disney destroyed Star Wars.

' Unrealeased 1994: Right approach but hindered by ridiculously low budget.

2 arguably 3 got it right.

I don't see Superman doing better than $500m.

I think you underestimate the impact of horror/suspense fans.

Gotta give the mommy vibes

Fuck I forgot Corman's version. It's sad since it's not only the one that resembles the concept the most but when you dig into the production everyone involved genuinly wanted to make a good film and were enthusiastic about it.

The MCU would rather have Spidey being mentored by other heroes despite the actor being near 30 years old.

Outgrossing $0

The story behind Corman's FF is a heartbreaking one but at least it has a happy ending with the movie being leaked. You just know that if the movie had a budget similar to that of Batman Returns, it would have been a masterpiece.

He bought?

gets a no name TV director, a bargain bin cast,

This has been the case for every Marvel movie in a long time.
I think it's funny they give 150M productions to people that have been in the industry for 20 years but haven't made more than 2-3 movies before, all flops too, and they expect to direct this one properly.

Then again I'll take that shit show approach any time before DC's approach of hiring the director of renown, and then breathing down their necks all day long and reshooting his movie whenever somebody questions anything. Happened to Nolan and he left. Happened to Snyder and he left. It's happening to Gunn right now, and we'll see if he leaves given that the whole pedo thing limits who will hire him.
I think that if you hire a director of renown, you should let him cook.

audience of boys who want a male hero like Pratt was.

A punching bag that keeps being insulted and outskilled by women is not what boys want.

I think that if you hire a director of renown, you should let him cook.

DC did that with the Joker sequel and it resulted in a hundreds of millions of dollars loss. There's a give and take here. Producers shouldn't give retarded notes, directors shouldn't be given full control with a hundreds of millions of dollars budget because they're just as likely to make something incredibly stupid no one wants to watch.

I won't go to the theater for any, but I'm looking forward to see how bad M3GAN 2 is compared to the first movie.

I don't believe it. Warner really let him do the movie as he wanted to?

He had absolute creative freedom and regularly ignored notes from execs and other people at the studio like Gunn. The guy was described as unreachable during the entire production.
Benefits of the Oscar nom I guess.

screenrant.com/joker-2-folie-a-deux-test-screenings-denied-report/
No test screenings, no notes, they gave him a lot of trust after the first one made a billion and got those awards.